Author [ES] [PL] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [DK] [SE] [FI] [NO] Topic: Lithium Battery - Convince Me  (Read 4256 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Joe S

  • Trophy Junior
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
  • Bike: 2015 Tiger 1200
  • City / Town: Oceanport
  • Country: USA
Re: Lithium Battery - Convince Me
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2020, 07:12:03 pm »
*Originally Posted by thogland [+]
Not true, actually. They are more effective at providing power, but the ratings are "equivalent AH". Example - MMG makes a bunch of these and actually posts real aH capacities. Their 6aH battery is a direct replacement for 16-24aH lead batteries, their 4aH is a replacement for 9-14aH, etc. If you dig at Shorai, they will eventually tell you that (for example) their 18aH battery uses 6aH cells, but since it's much more efficient their 6aH provides the same effective power as a SLA 18aH battery. This is one way the lithium batteries are lighter - there's less actual battery-guts in there.

Same area in their FAQ also explains the reasoning behind why they do this. Nothing wrong with this, it's just worth understanding.

My  Anti Gravity battery provides 360 CCA compared to my stock battery at 135...thats more power....its 4. 5 x 3. 25 x 4. 25-in . thats smaller than the stock battery...it weighs 2.25 lbs..thats lighter than the stock battery..so yeah, more power in a smaller package just as  I said.

*Originally Posted by Saddle Tramp [+]
I would appreciate hearing 2slow’s experience with Lithium batteries.
Don’t know so much about his current definition of cold!  :008:

I cant speak for 2slow but on one of my trips last year it was 18f when we pulled out of the hotel in the morning... the bike cranked a little slower than it did when its 50 but it fired right up and I never got the impression that it was going to be  problem .
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 07:14:57 pm by Joe S »

Offline thogland

  • Trophy Pro
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
  • Bike: 2015 Trophy SE
  • City / Town: Wasilla
  • Country: USA
Re: Lithium Battery - Convince Me
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2020, 06:27:54 pm »
*Originally Posted by Joe S [+]
My  Anti Gravity battery provides 360 CCA compared to my stock battery at 135...thats more power....its 4. 5 x 3. 25 x 4. 25-in . thats smaller than the stock battery...it weighs 2.25 lbs..thats lighter than the stock battery..so yeah, more power in a smaller package just as  I said.

I cant speak for 2slow but on one of my trips last year it was 18f when we pulled out of the hotel in the morning... the bike cranked a little slower than it did when its 50 but it fired right up and I never got the impression that it was going to be  problem .
(I know better than to argue on the internet, but...  :164: )

Trophy OEM battery is 12v 20aH - a quick search on Amazon shows the Battery Tender BTX20 - 330CCA (at 0F), 14lbs.

I looked up Anti Gravity's site and motorcycle batteries, and the ATX20 shows as 4lbs, 680 Cranking Amps and 20 Amp Hours (PbEq)/ 10Ah (Actual), and a replacement for 20aH SLA-type batteries. (There's no CCA listed for any of them, as Li doesn't crank well when cold - that's why they say when it's cold to let the bike sit for 20-30 seconds with the key on to warm it up a bit. There's also no battery listed for our Trophy.) Same size, and when warm you can pull a lot of crank out of it for less weight. From the case size, though, I'm guessing you have the AG-1201 - that's 360CA in a 8aH (16 equivalent) and is the exact dimensions you mentioned. So, same performance in a smaller size/weight/aH battery.

So, what you're describing is having a smaller capacity battery that's more efficient at powering a high-draw load (starting), at a much higher price. (12v 20aH SLA - about $50. ATX20 - $300, AG-1201 $200.).

(Deep breath...)

Now, let's stop just comparing numbers and think about what we *need*.

- CCA - high-amp load capacity (eg. starter) at 0F (or -20C). Listed for SLA/AGM. Anyone need this? Doubtful, which is why the Li battery CA (and their workaround for cold) is fine. ("Need" is 300+ CA - push button, engine spin, make noise, zoom zoom. More is nice, but 300 to work and have reserve, in case you stall it once or twice before it gets charged back up from riding.)
- Less weight up high on the bike - a good thing. Only 8 lbs change? Not significant, but every little bit helps.
- Lots more money? Bad, but everything is so much more expensive for bike vs car - if you aren't used to it, you should probably start (especially before you go shopping for BMW's). Let's not even bring up $300 tires that last 10k miles vs. my truck's tires that last 50k miles and cost $200  :157:
- Real trade-off (besides price) is an lower actual capacity for low-draw loads (like "oops - I left my key on all weekend in the garage"). For us, that's probably a fair trade, since we don't tend to do those low-draw activities like a car might (say, sitting in the parking lot at the store listening to the radio while your SO runs inside "just for a second".) For either battery, if you do that and run it absolutely dead, it's probably shot. If you catch it with 4-5v left, you can probably save it. Either way, you'll only forget that key once  :233:

For me, when it comes time to replace my OEM battery, I may move to lithium, even though most of my riding starts in chilly temps - 40s daily all summer, 30s spring and fall. Making this less top-heavy would be nice, even a little. Having to spend a lot more, plus a lithium charger (which I don't have) would be painful. Locally, good 20aH AGM are just under $100 from a battery specialist, probably cheaper elsewhere. They have PowerSonic "18aH" LiFePo4 (actually 9aH) for $180, and chargers are $50-ish. (Strangely, their 5aH ("14aH PbEq") is the same case size and weight - weird, or possibly a wrong description.)

My guess is I'll replace it with whatever is available when I need it, and if I have the extra ~$150 it'll be the lithium.

Finally, if you're concerned over CCA because you're riding at -20C, please send us a video - I want to see that   :020::190:

Offline Coconut

  • Trophy God
  • *****
  • Posts: 9090
    • View Profile
  • Bike: 2017 Trophy SE
  • City / Town: South Birmingham
  • Country: UK
Re: Lithium Battery - Convince Me
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2020, 07:06:44 pm »
I have no inclinations or need to ride in sub Zero temperatures.

I don't find the weight of my Trophy to be a problem, at all,
but if I did, then the most economical way to lose weight would be to go on a diet,
drink less Beer and eat less "unhealthy" food.  Then I would be saving money.

But I don't find it to be a problem !  Cheers :821:



 

Offline Joe S

  • Trophy Junior
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
  • Bike: 2015 Tiger 1200
  • City / Town: Oceanport
  • Country: USA
Re: Lithium Battery - Convince Me
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2020, 08:33:13 pm »
I ride an S1000XR....that's why my battery numbers looked off to you...😁

Offline 2slowTrophy

  • Trophy Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 1051
    • View Profile
  • Bike: 2015 Trophy SE Blue
  • City / Town: Dallas TX
  • Country: USA
Re: Lithium Battery - Convince Me
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2020, 02:01:09 am »
I liked the light weight of the lithium ion battery.
I was in about 45° temperature when I went to start my Tiger 1050 and with the lithium ion battery it did not start right away.
It just was a clicked so I left the key on to have a drain on the battery so it would warm up and then it started.
I found out a little disconcerting and have been using standard batteries ever sense.
I believe lithium ion batteries are the future but there are still a few bugs to work out their cold-weather need to be woken up is some thing that I would consider as a weakness .
If you don’t ride enough to keep your battery charged shame on you!!
IBA # 59602
One of the Founding Members of the Twisted Trophy's

Offline earthman

  • Trophy Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 2086
    • View Profile
  • Country: UK
Re: Lithium Battery - Convince Me
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2020, 01:56:12 pm »
How well are the likes of Tesla's electric cars doing in cold climates? I've heard about charging and range issues in sub zero temperatures,....more proof that this type of battery isn't well suited to this application if you ask me.

Offline 2slowTrophy

  • Trophy Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 1051
    • View Profile
  • Bike: 2015 Trophy SE Blue
  • City / Town: Dallas TX
  • Country: USA
Re: Lithium Battery - Convince Me
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2020, 03:40:51 pm »
With the weight saving on the right side what can be removed from the left side to counterbalance it so as not to make the left side heavier?
IBA # 59602
One of the Founding Members of the Twisted Trophy's

Offline trophied

  • Trophy God
  • *****
  • Posts: 4230
    • View Profile
  • Bike: 2013 Trophy SE
  • City / Town: New Braunfels, Tx
  • Country: USA
Re: Lithium Battery - Convince Me
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2020, 06:47:46 pm »
Your wallet! :745:
One of the Founding Members of the Twisted Trophies

 



tweedy-bunch