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Offline cropbiker

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Re: Not proper bikers iMHO
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2013, 07:59:48 am »
Scott,

I have to agree with you. No one comes out of this well. The bikers started this by riding in an irresponsible manner and creating a cascade of events leading to serious injury.

The SUV driver was doing what any husband and father would do protecting his wife and child. Could he have done things differently? Quite possibly. But in the heat of the moment surrounded by a baying mob he did what he felt he needed to in order to protect those that he held most dear. I would challenge any of us to react differently in that given situation.

Any road injury or death is a tragedy but as motorcyclists surely we have a reSponsibility to ourselves and other road users not to ride in an antagonistic, aggressive and irresponsible fashion. This tragic chain of events was started by just such an act of stupid riding and as with many things involving large numbers of people it rapidly escalated.

I am sure the SUV driver deeply regrets causing such serious injuries, but faced with the same threat to his loved ones I am sure he would do the same again.

Kevin
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Offline w8d4it

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Re: Not proper bikers iMHO
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2013, 02:52:39 pm »
*Originally Posted by Amboguzzi [+]
Well I guess you are calling me out then and I don't understand why. You fail to understand that sometimes good/bad people get hurt only because they put themselves into situations that will do no good for anybody. You seem to have tunnel vision and are unwilling/unable to accept the fact that there were two highly emotional situations occurring at once. You seem to think that the only thing that happened that day was a slightly over enthusiastic motorcyclist decided that it would be interesting to slow he bike down in front of a 4000lbs SUV and see what just might happen. Then the motorcyclist gets first hand knowledge of terms like inertia, stability, two wheels vs four, and the drag coefficient of skin on asphalt. Now, all the other curious bikers are interested in talking to the fallen comrade to discuss how it felt to challenge a 4000lbs SUV, but of course, they politely ask the SUV driver to stop. They do this so they can have a scientific discussion of how he felt after he jettisoned their friend into next week. Of course, the SUV driver was more than willing to stop and participate in this forum and I'm sure he was thinking that he just might make some new friends while he was at it.
Then, just before they all decide to go to Denny's for lunch and exchange twitter accounts, the crazy, reckless, drug popping, family man, decides that this would be the perfect opportunity to perform his own tests and takes his SUV and launches it into the crowd to find out what would happen if a 4000lbs SUV tries to scale multiple humans/motorcycles. When he does this, he realizes that his new friends are upset and not only are they upset they want to kill him. So, as he is driving away at a reasonable speed, he and his wife are discussing what went wrong. He cant believe that his new friends would not be interested in discussing what the outcome was from his experiment. Goes to figure, just when you think you know someone, then bam they misunderstand you.
Is that close?
You dismiss the fact that the SUV driver is in a possible life threatening situation. You dismiss the fact that he has his wife and baby in the vehicle. You just plain old dismiss the fact that the motorcyclists put themselves into a situation that turned on them. They expected this driver with his family to remain in the middle of 30 bikers, who are attempting/expressing the fact that they want to harm him. Now, I'm sure that you would have been confident in your ability to talk them down, so you would have exited the vehicle and started to discuss the fact that what just happened was an accident. That we all should go to Denny's and work it out. Exchange insurance info and call the police just so that there was a report to satisfy your insurance agents.
Back to your statement-- do I believe he deserves to be paralyzed-- No -- of course not, I never said that. What I did say is that if you put yourself in a situation that could allow bad things to happen then I have no sympathy. If that means that my values are markedly different from yours and the rest of the people on this forum and are not interested in my point of view, then the last thing I would ever want to be responsible for is poisoning an excellent retreat like this forum and I will leave. Its just a shame that you can only see one side of this horrible tragedy.
Just let me know.
Scott

No one has "called you out".  What a silly remark.  Are we on a motorcycle forum or in the "old west?

In a previous post I asked you if the motorcyclist(s) deserved to be run over and you replied "Yes, I do believe that the motorcyclist deserved to get run over."  Now in your last response you attempt to back away from that statement by saying you never said he deserved to be paralyzed. To say someone deserves to be run over by a 5000 pound vehicle but not injured is to ignore reality.  I said that if you truly believed the motorcyclist deserved to be run over then your values are different from mine and I hope the majority of the forums.   You now seem to be backing away from your assertion that he deserved to be injured and I'm glad you feel that you now feel way.   IF you take the time to look at ALL my previous posts on this subject you will see that I repeatedly said that NO ONE was in the right in this incident. 

I'm not going to respond to you personal attacks on me.  That is not what this forum is about.
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Offline Berber

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Re: Not proper bikers iMHO
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2013, 04:05:52 pm »
A friend of mine in the US has said that the car driver has run a biker over prior to what is on the video and was why the biker we saw slowing down was taking that action. In my opinion we should not make comments until all the facts in issue are available.

Just my thought.
'The farther one travels, the less one knows.......'

George Harrison

Offline w8d4it

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Re: Not proper bikers iMHO
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2013, 04:41:22 pm »
*Originally Posted by Berber [+]
A friend of mine in the US has said that the car driver has run a biker over prior to what is on the video and was why the biker we saw slowing down was taking that action. In my opinion we should not make comments until all the facts in issue are available.

Just my thought.
:0461:
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Offline triucati

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Re: Not proper bikers iMHO
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2013, 05:07:13 pm »
I have stayed quiet on this one, for the very reason there is probably more to this story than we know.  But since no more information has come out yet, and based on what we have been shown, some thoughts:

What the f*** was the rider thinking that tried to stop a 4000 lb SUV with a 400 lb motorcycle (and the rear tire totally exposed)?  Not smart, I equate this to the road bicyclists (for the record I ride bicycle too) that take the whole highway because they lawfully can, without any regard to the fact that they are riding a 17lb vehicle versus 4000lb vehicles.  I think we motorcyclists (and bicyclists) need to take some responsibility of our own actions/safety.     

I am guessing a majority of us, in the same situation as the SUV driver, would have done a similar act.  The SUV driver was surrounded by an angry mob, and you do not know their intentions or if they have guns, or etc...

I think all parties involved, after the fact, would have reacted differently.  It is a very sad story, and I think it reflects badly on us motorcyclists.



 

Offline Amboguzzi

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Re: Not proper bikers iMHO
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2013, 05:02:54 am »
W8d4it- I'm not backing away from anything. That quote that you pulled out was referring to the biker that slowed down in front of the SUV or possibly any other biker who participated and/or acted like him . You then posted about the other biker with the broken back and questioned my values as to whether or not I felt he deserved it. I responded with a statement that bad things can happen to good/bad people when they put themselves into situations such as this. If I made it seem like anything other than what I just stated above, than I must have failed to communicate my position properly.
Will refrain from opinions so that I will not be responsible for turning this forum into a verbal version of the OK coral.
I will kept two things in mind from here on out
1- I will try not to ignore reality
2- And seriously-- pay more attention to my tone so that I don't upset others.
Scott 

Offline w8d4it

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