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Offline Macka

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Please help Bike non start after moving TPS sensor
« on: February 28, 2021, 05:49:44 pm »
Please help!
Initial fault was cutting out on a closed throttle and not being able to restart unless cranking with the throttle open.
Suspected an air leak so replaced the throttle body intake tubes which had perished whilst doing a major service. Unfortunately this didn't rectify the problem and the engine would run fine off of idle but refused to idle.
Ordered a dealer tool so i could balance the throttle bodies. Whilst waiting for the dealer tool i thought i would try moving the throttle position sensor to see if it resolved the problem.
 I adjusted the TPS with the engine running as i moved it the RPM increased and i switched of the ignition. Turning the ignition back on the engine management light stayed on as did the the traction control warning light and i noticed the throttle butterflys didnt move, engine would not restart.
Checked for fault codes had the following faults P1135 TRACTION CONTROL DISABLED DUE TO ABS, P1574 CRUISE CONTROL DIABLED, P2111 THROTTLE STUCK OPEN.
I put the TPS back to its original position but the engine would still not start and the thottle body motor still didnt move.So i waited for the dealer tool.
Connected the dealer tool started by clearing the fault codes but the TRACTION CONTROL and CRUISE CONTROL faults will not clear! Also i cant connect to the ABS system connection gets to about 75% and then just stops. I also tried to actuate the throttle bodies using dealer tool but the throttle motor doesnt move.
I have looked at all of the sensor values  using dealer tool all values look good apart from the throttle twist grip sensor values 1 and 2 are different when they should be the same`. When i move the twist grip throttle only value 1 changes! value 2 for the twistgrip  only changes when i move the throttle butterflys and it has the same value as the throttle body 2 sensors.
I noticed on a you tube video the same readings as i am getting.
Is this incorrect reading of the sensor voltages at the twist grip a dealer tool issue or do i have a genuine problem with the twist grip potentionometers or wiring fault!
Please help me regain my sanity.



Offline Coconut

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Re: Please help Bike non start after moving TPS sensor
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2021, 07:26:52 pm »
This sounds quite complicated and may need a Dealer to resolve.

My knowledge is quite limited in this area, but but I would ignore the
Traction Control & Cruise Control faults for now,
as they shouldn't have any bearing on the engine not running,
and would concentrate on getting the engine running correctly first,
which may resolve those other faults too.

I would suspect that this is all linked to the Throttle Position Sensor.

In the first instance, this could have been the cause of the poor / non Idling,
and then by moving its position it might have resulted in the
DTC ( P2111 ) being generated if it has been moved out of limits,
and now requires the procedure to be run for replacing the Throttle Position Sensor,
as detailed on Pages 10.140 & 10.141 of the Service Manual.

Note that DTC P2111 is actually listed as "Throttle Drive Error",
and does not necessarily mean "Stuck Open".

You have no DTC's relating to the Twistgrip Position Sensors,
so I would also leave them for now.

Unfortunately DealerTool does not have the ability to set the Throttle Position Sensor,
which can ( currently ) ONLY be accurately set using the Dealer's connected equipment,
which is used to first send a command to drive the Throttle to the fully closed position,
and then Voltage Readings are observed while the precise location of the
Throttle Position Sensor is carefully adjusted until the voltage is within the specified range,
when the Sensor bolts are tightened to lock it in that position.

I do not have sufficient knowledge to be able to say whether it is possible to move
the Throttles manually, though I would not be surprised to be unable to,
and is why I suspect you may need to have the Bike recovered
to a Dealer to set the Throttles up again.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 07:30:14 pm by Coconut »

Offline Macka

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Re: Please help Bike non start after moving TPS sensor
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2021, 10:23:25 pm »
Hi Coconut

Thanks for the reply.
I think my non start issue due to the throttle motor not working is down to me moving the TPS with the engine running so the ECM thinks that the throttle has opened without throttle input from the rider and this has put it into a lock down mode for obvious safety reasons. I agree it will probably need to have the TPS reset to a base level by a Dealer.
Do you or anybody else know if the sensor inputs on page 4 on the dealer tool for throttle voltages etc shows the correct voltages for the twist grip sensors 1 and 2 (should be very similar).
I know with flyby wire throttle two potentionometers are used at the throttle body and two more are used at the twistgrip for safety reasons. The ECM then looks to ensure that there isnt a big difference from each sensor at the twist grip and the same for the sensors at the throttle body. My dealer tool is showing sensor 1 at the twist grip ok but sensor 2 doesnt change with the twist grip but it does change when i physically open the throttle butterflys with my hand and shows a very similar reading to the two throttle body sensors.
This would be could to clarify for anybody else who needs to trouble shoot throttle problems.
Cheers  :187:

Offline Coconut

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Re: Please help Bike non start after moving TPS sensor
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2021, 10:07:26 am »
Hi again,

As I stated previously my knowledge in this area is limited.

I believe you are correct that there are two Twistgrip Position Sensors,
and two Throttle Position Sensors - for the purpose of detecting any failure,
but what voltages should be expected if the Throttle Position Sensor
has been moved, perhaps out of limits, I cannot say.

If the system requires the new TPS Installation routine to be run,
I don't know whether that might explain the lack of any change on your
Twistgrip #2 Sensor and may be as a result of needing that reset procedure,
especially as there are no DTC's reporting any fault with either of the Twistgrip Sensors.

In case it does help, I've just fired up my Dealertool, and taken screenshots
of the Closed and Open Twistgrip readings - you can see that on mine
both Sensor voltages do change when the Twistgrip is operated.

Cheers  :821:

« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 10:11:47 am by Coconut »

Offline Macka

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Re: Please help Bike non start after moving TPS sensor
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2021, 07:01:02 pm »
Thanks Coconut

Really appreciate you taking the time to help me out with the pics from Dealer tool.
I am sure everybody who uses the forum would agree the time and effort you put into helping people out with all sorts of issues and questions really makes this forum such a great resource.

Thanks again

Offline Coconut

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Re: Please help Bike non start after moving TPS sensor
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2021, 07:09:02 pm »
Thanks Macka,

Not sure how much I've assisted with this one,
but always happy to help if I can.

Cheers  :821:


Offline Coconut

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Re: Please help Bike non start after moving TPS sensor
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2021, 06:59:50 am »
Hi again,

I've been looking further into this problem
and have consulted the guys at Dealertool.

You mentioned previously that you could manually move the throttles.

Try this, after moving the Throttles manually to the fully closed position against the stop :

  • Disconnect ( unplug ) the electrical connector
    on the throttle body for the Throttle position MOTOR
  • Use Dealertool to read the TPS #2 voltage.
  • Slacken the securing bolts so the sensor can be rotated,
    and adjust the TPS Sensor position to obtain a voltage
    of 0.64v ( or within the range of 0.62V to 0.66V )
    with the Throttles at the fully Closed stop position.
  • Tighten the bolts to 3.5Nm
  • Reconnect the Throttle position motor
  • Use Dealertool to clear fault codes ( DTCĺs )
  • Switch the Ignition OFF.
    ( When using the Dealers equipment to perform this Voltage setting,
    the Service Manual advises that the engiine will not start
    until the Ignition has been switched OFF, and then back ON,
    so I would also recommend doing this before trying !)

The system should re-learn the closed throttle position again.

As stated in the Service Manual, note that this is an initial setting Voltage only,
and that the in-service voltage may vary slightly from this figure due to the adaptive
nature of the technology.  By way of example you will see that my TPS#2 Voltage is 0.69 V.

Once you have the engine running again, and at a stable Idle,
I would carry out the "Engine Adaption" process ( which MUST be carried out from COLD ).

This process examines and resets the :

  • Closed throttle position reference status
  • Twist grip adaptation
  • Oxygen sensor adaptation status ( off idle )
  • Oxygen sensor adaptation range ( off idle )
  • Oxygen sensor adaptation status ( idle )
  • Oxygen sensor adaptation range ( idle )

The procedure is :
  • Ensure the engine is COLD
  • WITHOUT TOUCHING THE THROTTLE ( throughout the complete process ),
    Start the engine and allow it to warm up until the Cooling Fans come on.
  • Leave the engine to idle for a minimum of a further 12 minutes. ( Longer doesn't matter ).
  • Turn the Ignition OFF


Hope this helps !

« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 09:23:49 am by Coconut »

Offline digital

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Re: Please help Bike non start after moving TPS sensor
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2021, 09:51:58 pm »
They are highly recommended when you have to keep the engine idling for a long time. It is to remove the fuse from the headlights, since the heat produced by the bulbs, burn the plasticis of the headlights.
Only motorcyclists know why dogs stick their head out the car window.