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Offline R1der851

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Re: No idle no start
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2021, 05:47:07 pm »
Thanks Coconut. I will have to check those numbers again. I took a screenshot of 4 sensor pages that I thought would be relevant to my problem. The engine was running when I did the shot of the TPS. 1 and 2 were both at .83 volt.
The page that concerns and confuses me the most is the page with Throttle % and Twistgrip %. I have 34.4% throttle opening with 94.9% Twistgrip opening. So there is proof I don't have full throttle. So I should have a code that comes up? But I don't.
I really don't believe these bikes are this fragile that the motor that works the throttle can be damaged with such a small variation in voltage. Something is definitely wrong as you can feel the bike hang the RPMs at 3000 going down the road with no hand on the throttle and the cruise off. After a few seconds it will drop to an idle if you don't hold the throttle grip.
I really don't know what numbers to look for so I greatly appreciate everyone's input.

Offline Coconut

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Re: No idle no start
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2021, 06:01:44 pm »
The Closed Throttle Position is Set when the Engine is NOT running,
so if that is incorrect, I imagine it could throw other parameters out.

Page 4 of the DealerTool Sensor Values Menu ( as below )
shows the TPS #1 and #2 voltages,
and also the Twistgrip #1 and #2 voltages.

Tomorrow I will try and take a Video with my DealerTool hooked up
showing the settings at Engine Off ( Cold engine ),
and then with the engine started as it warms up.

Let me know if I can confirm any other Sensor values for you.

Cheers  :821:

« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 06:04:19 pm by Coconut »

Offline R1der851

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Re: No idle no start
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2021, 01:46:38 am »
Thanks Coconut. If you can look at the info on the MAP page I would appreciate it. I'm guessing the kPa numbers are the same as the numbers on the Throttle Balance screen minus the graphic bars for each cylinder. I live about 960 ft ASL. Since I'm guessing you're not up in the Alps or experiencing the low pressure associated with a hurricane our barometric pressure numbers should be close.

Offline Coconut

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Re: No idle no start
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2021, 01:00:23 pm »
Hi again,

As promised, I made a Video, and have uploaded it to YouTube :


You should find all of the Baseline Sensor settings that you need in the video.

Rather than limit it to this Topic, I have also created a New Topic
for any comments pertinent to the Video, rather than your specific problems here :

DealerTool Walkthrough of the Main Features & Functions

Cheers  :821:




« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 01:11:22 pm by Coconut »

Offline R1der851

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Re: No idle no start
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2021, 03:10:50 pm »
Thank you Coconut. I'm at work but looking forward to comparing data.

Here is the screenshot that worries me the most.



As you can see the Twistgrip input and throttle opening don't match.

Offline Coconut

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Re: No idle no start
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2021, 03:44:50 pm »
I don't see that as being a problem -
The Twistgrip % and Throttle %  are not meant to match !

Your engine is not running, your Coolant Temp is 80 Deg. C, and Air Temp is 42 Deg C.

In the Video at around 1'50", my Engine is not running and is COLD  -
with the Coolant Temp at 13 Deg, C, Air Temp at 15 Deg C.

You will see that when I fully open the Twistgrip, the Voltage is Identical to yours at  94.9%,
and my Throttle reading is 35.2% - not wildly different from your 34.4%

The difference is no doubt due to the different Coolant and Air Temperatures,
demanding a slightly higher Target Idle Speed of 1584 RPM compared to your 1028 RPM.

The Reason for the difference in Twistgrip and Throttle Position readings
is due to the "Ride by Wire" technology, where the Throttle openings,
Fuel Injection and Ignition Timing are controlled by the main ECM,
to ensure the correct Fuel / Air mixture is delivered in all conditions.

The video is split into two sections - the first section covers the majority of Sensor values
WITHOUT the engine running, and then moves on to a few more WITH the engine running,
so you can compare all of these with your own values.

Take particular note of the TPS #2 Voltage ( Sensor Values - Page 4 )
with the Engine OFF, and Twistgrip Closed.

Cheers  :821:



 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 03:48:11 pm by Coconut »

Offline karl andrews

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Re: No idle no start
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2021, 05:44:07 pm »
Brilliant video  coconut looks like my dealer tool out of date has not got the tps removal function ?

I can see his problem being camshaft timing this effects the manifold  pressure  and no adaptation possible if fault
 codes are present.
I have seen many problems where it comes to camshaft timing impossible to get perfect without all the dealer tools .
The timing chains are not the best and have tight spots in them but for £78  pounds worth replacing .
Always remove the plunger clean all oil out of the timing chains tensioner clean and re set but I know some people just fit new ones now . As the later ones don't seem to drain all the oil out of them when hot and parked on the side stand .
My advice check valve timing first with the camshaft setting tool and the crankshaft locking pin at a guess inlet cam 1 tooth out .
I have just checked a 1215 engine in an explorer on Saturday same fault valve timing incorrect and camshaft tensioner not set properly lucky no engine damage.
And that was fitted by a motorcycle technician apparently? 
Anybody close to myself 20 to 30 miles I would always be willing to help and check with special tools before they put it all back together . As long as kettle on and a good bacon butty on arrival  :028:

Offline Coconut

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Re: No idle no start
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2021, 05:59:53 pm »
Link to Topic for later DealerTool Software Version,
( If you have their Version 2.5a or later Interface Cable ) with those added features :

DealerTool Software Update Version 6.30a 

It has been suggested a few times that the Camsaft Timing may be out, but the OP advises he has
checked this and is sure it is correct.  Might be worth "Triple" checking it again though !

« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 06:19:11 pm by Coconut »