Author [NL] [FR] [ES] [DE] [SE] [IT] Can-Bus Triumph Trophy SE line  (Read 5006 times)

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  • Offline digital   es

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    Can-Bus Triumph Trophy SE line
    on: Oct 27, 2021, 11.42 pm
    Oct 27, 2021, 11.42 pm
    I see that the forum has been somewhat stopped for about two weeks. So I open this post so that you can entertain yourself with the theme that our integrated motorcycle has.

    It is good to know what it has installed and it will not only be enough for us to get on the motorcycle and wing !!! Let him take us where I tell him.

    This topic is very interesting to know how it works, I assure you that if you know how to understand it, it will not be as complicated as it may seem.

    I recommend that you save this information that I will be adding, since the service manual does not explain anything about the Can-Bus network. When it comes to troubleshooting, it is much easier to understand how Can-Bus works.
    For the gentlemen who do not understand the function of the Can-bus, I will explain something above ...

    There were more and more electrical devices in vehicles and it started to get very complex. It was then that it was decided that a communication protocol for the automotive industry had to be defined. This is how the CAN bus was born in 1982.

    Now, imagine the kilometers of cable that a car carries, also in my TTSE, hahaha. Well, if it weren't for the Can-Bus network, it would be twice as many cables as necessary for all the new technology gadgets that a car has installed.

    The bus system, I know it well because I play it very often because of my work.

    As these days I was involved with the installation of the sound equipment, I was able to see its construction and installation on our motorcycles. The truth is that I have learned many things that I did not know, such as:
    It is curious that the Trophy was born in 2012 or rather ... It was released in 2012. Well, the sound systems were designed for the Trophy in 2009, that is, three years before the Trophy came out. for sale. Which is to say, Triumph had been running the Trophy project for several years before it hit the market.

    As I have been working with the sound team. I will give you the example using the sound equipment and the Can-Bus lines ...

    The Can-Bus lines work only with two cables, in the Trophy with (red and blue) red for CAN high and blue for CAN low. It is very important that these two cables are twisted together, thus avoiding interferences, etc., etc.

    Peripherals can be added as much as the manufacturer wishes, simply connect them in parallel to the two trunk lines of the Can-Bus.

    The manufacturer sends information to the peripherals installed in the cars through software, (usually written in the C) language and later inscribes that data and sends it to the peripheral chips so that by sending commands, it does what they have programmed.

    Imagine, only the sound system, which is under the seat, how many cables would be necessary to perform all the functions it has ??? Uff! I do not even want to think about it, the truth is that all those functions available, we only perform them with the six audio buttons on the left side of the TTSE handlebar, if we stop to think that a sound system for the United States and Canada, it carries a few more functions than European stereos.

    Well, all these functions are only done with the two Can-Bus cables.

    That would only be the example of the sound equipment, now, look at the diagram that I have made and you will see the devices that the TTSE has connected to the can bus trunk line. Constantly, a lot of information is passing through these two cables, I have been able to see it with the oscilloscope.

    The main lines of the Can-Bus are connected in the Trophy to the ECU and the instrument panel, you will see in the diagram that I have put a resistance of 120 Ω to each one, so you already know where the resistors are incorporated into the Trophy Can-Bus ends.
    As I said at the beginning, in the service manual it does not explain anything about the Can-Bus and even less where these two final Can-Bus resistors are housed and I add that I am sure that 90% of the official workshops do not know where they are either.

    Let's say that between the part of the instrument panel and the ECU is where the Can-Bus line is divided and when looking for faults it simplifies troubleshooting, when the instrument panel and the ECU are joined by the two cables of the Can -Bus, both resistors are connected in parallel, so the impedance of 120 Ω becomes half, that is, it would be about 60 Ω, these is what we must have by measuring with a voltmeter between the two Can cables -Bus, we can measure at any point on the line as seen in my diagram, normally we should have about 61 or 62 Ω, to make this type of measurement, it is advisable to disconnect the battery, since if we do not do it, it is it may give us false errors.

    Well, you already have to read for a while ...

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  • Offline trophied   us

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    Re: Can-Bus Triumph Trophy SE line
    Reply #1 on: Oct 27, 2021, 11.50 pm
    Oct 27, 2021, 11.50 pm
     :156: I'm so glad I'm old and won't have much longer left so I don't HAVE to learn all this! :745:  A cell phone is overwhelming enough!
    One of the Founding Members of the Twisted Trophies

  • Offline digital   es

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    Re: Can-Bus Triumph Trophy SE line
    Reply #2 on: Oct 28, 2021, 12.07 am
    Oct 28, 2021, 12.07 am
    I'm older too, hahaha. But there are no ages to learn and at least know small doses of the functions of what we use frequently.

    They say that knowledge has no place in our brains.  :008:
    Only motorcyclists know why dogs stick their head out the car window.


  • Offline cecilt   gb

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    Re: Can-Bus Triumph Trophy SE line
    Reply #3 on: Oct 28, 2021, 08.28 am
    Oct 28, 2021, 08.28 am
    Thanks Digital - an amazing effort to teach us! But for me, as long as it starts and goes, I'm happy!
    cecilt

  • Offline Saddle Tramp   us

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    Re: Can-Bus Triumph Trophy SE line
    Reply #4 on: Oct 28, 2021, 02.03 pm
    Oct 28, 2021, 02.03 pm
    Thanks for your write up digital.
    I know that BMW makes considerable use of Can-Bus on my GSA, but was not aware of the extent that Triumph incorporates it on our Trophy, although I had my suspicions.

    For example, despite the fact that I wired my Accessory Air Horn directly to the battery, incorporating both a fuse and a relay, the stereo still automatically mutes on the rare occasion that I actually use the Horn. I can only imagine that the Can-Bus senses the added amperage draw, and compensates by disabling the stereo. Interesting.  :084:

  • Offline Yaga1973   us

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    Re: Can-Bus Triumph Trophy SE line
    Reply #5 on: Oct 28, 2021, 02.30 pm
    Oct 28, 2021, 02.30 pm
    Having been a mechanic for many moons, I've always enjoyed electrical theory and how modern technology evolves to make things work better, especially while eliminating excessive wiring.  While I am not an expert on CANBUS and all of its machinations, I thoroughly enjoy reading content of this type.  Thank you, Digital!
    Ride safe, ride often!

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  • Offline janfmiller   us

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    Offline janfmiller

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    Re: Can-Bus Triumph Trophy SE line
    Reply #6 on: Oct 28, 2021, 02.34 pm
    Oct 28, 2021, 02.34 pm
    *Originally Posted by trophied [+]
    :156: I'm so glad I'm old and won't have much longer left so I don't HAVE to learn all this! :745:  A cell phone is overwhelming enough!

    Trophied, this made me chuckle, as I served my last couple of decades as a blue/white-ish collar man in the computer field and had to read STACKS of manuals all the time, not to mention the reading going to university as a 'non-traditional student' in my late 30's. 

    Now, at 72, if I can't learn what I need in 10 minutes, I'm not really very interested.

    That said, thanks, Digital, for imparting some great knowledge.  I assume each device attached to the CB has a hardware address and so signals are sent down the CB addressed to a certain device with it?  Much like all network cards have a unique MAC address? 


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  • Offline digital   es

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    Re: Can-Bus Triumph Trophy SE line
    Reply #7 on: Oct 28, 2021, 03.25 pm
    Oct 28, 2021, 03.25 pm
    It is a subject that would be to get into computer systems and that is not my strength, I only got to study the Visual Basic language, and nothing to do with programming languages ​​and the assembly language (in English: assembly language and the abbreviation asm ).

    The so-called "machine language" is one of the oldest languages ​​that exist; It is formed by combining "1" and "0", that is, it is a language that only uses the binary system. This is so because this is the only system that devices and computers are capable of interpreting.

    Certainly during my project to install a sound system in TTSE different from the OEM one, I could see the two-way internal communication that it makes between the sound system and the instrument panel.

    I hope that the article that I have found and I place it below, can answer your question, read it because despite the age we are, it is very interesting to know how the Can-Bus system works.

    General description
    The CAN bus (Controller Area Network) for its acronym in English, is an automotive bus developed by Bosch, which allows microcontrollers and devices to communicate with each other within a vehicle without a host computer. The CAN bus is a message-based protocol, designed specifically for automotive applications, but is now also used in other areas such as aerospace, industrial automation, and medical equipment.

    Connects individual sensors and systems as an alternative to conventional multi-wire looms. Allows automotive components to communicate on a one or two wire network data bus at up to 1 Mbps.
    The CAN bus is one of the five protocols used in the OBD-II vehicle diagnostic standard.

    Functioning
    The CAN bus uses two dedicated cables for communication. The cables are called CAN high and CAN low. The CAN controller is connected to all components of the network through these two cables. Each network node has a unique identifier. All ECUs on the bus are effectively in parallel and that is why all nodes see all the data, all the time. A node only responds when it detects its own identifier. Individual nodes can be removed from the network without affecting the other nodes.

     When the CAN bus is in idle mode, both lines carry 2.5V. When data bits are transmitted, the CAN high line goes to 3.75V and the CAN low line goes down to 1.25V, generating a 2.5V differential between the lines: each of the CAN lines is referenced to the other, not to ground vehicle . Since communication is based on a voltage differential between the two bus lines, the CAN bus is NOT sensitive to inductive spikes, electric fields, or other noise. This makes the CAN bus a reliable option for network communications in mobile equipment.



    CAN power can be supplied via the CAN bus. Or a power supply for the CAN bus modules can be arranged separately. The power supply wiring can be totally separated from the CAN bus lines, resulting in two 2-wire cables being used for the network, or it can be integrated into the same cable as the CAN bus lines, which which results in a single 4-wire cable.

    The nature of CAN bus communications allows all modules to transmit and receive data on the bus. Any module can transmit data, which the rest of the modules receive. It is very important that the CAN bus bandwidth is allocated to the most safety critical systems first. Nodes are generally assigned to one of several priority levels. For example, engine, brake, and airbag controls are very important from a safety standpoint, and commands to activate these systems have the highest priority. This means that they will act before the less critical ones. Audio and navigation devices are usually medium priority, and lighting activation may be the lowest priority. A process known as arbitration decides the priority of any message.

    Most motor vehicle CAN networks operate at a bus speed of 250 kB / s or 500 kB / s. The latest vehicles use up to 3 separate CAN networks, usually of different speeds connected to each other by gateways. Data on one of the three networks is available to the other two networks. Engine management functions are generally found on a high speed 500 kB / s bus and chassis systems operate on a slower 250 kB / s CAN bus. Other functions, such as lights, satnav, and mirrors, are found on a single-wire, low-speed LIN (local interconnection network) bus.

    Possible problems for CAN BUS network failures:
    • Peak-to-peak voltage levels are not correct.
    • The signal is not present on both CAN cables.

    The ISO 11898 standard lists several CAN bus cable failure modes:

    1 CAN_H interrupted
    2 CAN_L interrupted
    3 CAN_H shorted to battery voltage
    4 CAN_L shorted to ground
    5 CAN_H shorted to ground
    6 CAN_L shorted to battery voltage
    7 CAN_L shorted to CAN_H wire
    8 CAN_H and CAN_L interrupted at the same location
    9 Loss of connection to the terminating network.
    Only motorcyclists know why dogs stick their head out the car window.


     



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