Author [NL] [FR] [ES] [DE] [SE] [IT] Topic: No Start following Gauge Cluster Shutdown  (Read 1256 times)

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  • Offline Dan66

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    Offline Dan66

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    No Start following Gauge Cluster Shutdown
    on: Jun 15, 2022, 07.36 pm
    Jun 15, 2022, 07.36 pm
    I don't believe I have seen this combination of problems reported before.  This occurred last Friday morning, but the day doesn't matter.  Had completed about 1400 miles running all around the smokey mountains with some friends and were traveling back to a collection point.  During the drive, as has happened just a handful of times, my display went blank, (speedo and tack to 0), lost cruise, etc.  Again this has happened before but extremely infrequent in 34,000 miles of riding.  Made a stop a few minutes later for gas and the bike won't start.

    I get one click from the solenoid and then absolutely nothing.  Dash does light up so there is power and the bike had only sat a few minutes.  Had to disconnect the battery negative and reconnect and bike started fine.  This in particular has happened 3 times and all 3 times required removal of the negative lead (or positive I would assume) to get it to start.  Always starts right up after this and isn't a problem for months.  Again, this has happened all of 3 times including this time.

    I'm thinking the negative removal is forcing a restart of the ECU and that this is an ECU problem - but maybe not.  Obviously, with disconnecting the battery I move the handlebars to gain access.

    I haven't pulled everything apart yet and will in the next couple of weeks to check the ignition switch wiring but thought I'd throw this out to the highly knowledgeable here to see if there was any other advice.  Obviously an ECU problem is a big problem on a discontinued bike and I don't feel like this would strand me since the negative lead removal has always solved the problem.

    Here are my initial thoughts
    • Bad ground somewhere
    • Ignition switch wiring
    • Failing solenoid
    • Failing ECU

    Other ideas and experience would be appreciated.

  • Offline Coconut   gb

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    Offline Coconut

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    Re: No Start following Gauge Cluster Shutdown
    Reply #1 on: Jun 15, 2022, 08.05 pm
    Jun 15, 2022, 08.05 pm
    First off - Have you had the Ignition Wiring Safety Recall Inspection carried out ?

    If not, in plain and simple terms,  Get it done - It could save your life !

    Whether or not that is your problem, have the Battery properly tested.

    A number of Members have had "strange" electrical issues that were resolved by replacing the Battery.

    Other ideas :

    Do you have the Triumph / DataTool S4 alarm fitted ?

    There was a Recall of some of these alarms due to unexpected Ignition shutdown.

    Topic here with details of Serial numbers affected :

    IMPORTANT ! Triumph Datatool S4 Alarm - RECALL !

    Also, have you had the Audio Software update ? 

    The original software version could cause Battery failure due to the Audio system
    intermittently continuing to draw power after the Ignition was switched off.

    Topic, ( one of many ! ) : HOW TO: Obtain the XM Radio System Software Update ( U.S. )

    Cheers  :821:



  • Offline digital   es

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    Offline digital

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    Re: No Start following Gauge Cluster Shutdown
    Reply #2 on: Jun 15, 2022, 09.12 pm
    Jun 15, 2022, 09.12 pm
    First of all, before disconnecting the negative battery cable, you should check if there are any stored DTCs... (It might help to know where you have the problem).

    I'm going to rule out the battery as I understand you must have the loud moving sound with the starter.

    As Coconut says, I could have a problem with the alarm, but I seem to recall that even if the alarm failed, it never left the instrument screen blank.

    By the way…. If you do not have an alarm, the alarm connector is located on the right side of the Trophy, just above the right footrest, this connector must have two cables that make a jumper, if one of the two mentioned cables fails, you could have problems engine stop. But as I say… I think the instrument display does not go blank.

    If you have the sound of clack, clack of the solenoid, it is clear that the problem is not there either, in addition, in this case it would not stop the engine since once the engine is running, the solenoid does not act.

    There can be many causes where it can cause that breakdown.
    So, I think because of your comment. You must have a problem between the alternator, positive passage through the solenoid and battery...
    The first thing is to look at the DTC codes, the next thing is to replace the 40th fuse located on top of the battery, don't even look at it... Throw it away unceremoniously.

    It could also be that you have a fault in the negative battery cable that is sulfated, muddy, etc. That cable I think I remember is screwed to the chassis next to the alternator.

    It may also be that the positive cable that goes to the alternator is sulfated due to inclement weather, especially if you live in coastal areas.
    You should review everything I mention. Ideally, replace the positive and negative battery cable kit. The 40th fuse is included and the price should not exceed 10 euros.

    Regarding the ignition cable, I assume that you have already moved the handlebars of your motorcycle to see if the engine starts or not, so if so, you could rule it out.

     Of course, apparently when you disconnect the negative cable you say that the engine starts, well, this may be because if it has a mass leak, when disconnecting it and reconnecting it, it is as if it gives a good push to -12 volts and makes more electrons circulate. But surely the engine will start if instead of disconnecting the negative cable, it does so by disconnecting the positive cable. The result would be the same.

    I hope you find the problem and if you need more help we are here...
    Only motorcyclists know why dogs stick their head out the car window.


  • Offline Dan66

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    Offline Dan66

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    Re: No Start following Gauge Cluster Shutdown
    Reply #3 on: Jun 15, 2022, 09.49 pm
    Jun 15, 2022, 09.49 pm
    First, thank you both for the quick replies and I'll do some digging over the weekend.

    Coconut - yes the recall inspection was completed at the local dealer and wiring was determined to be acceptable.  And no, I don't have the alarm fitted.

    Digital - the solenoid will only pop once and then nothing until I pull the negative or positive from the battery.  Same result. 

    I'll get the battery tested and will be verifying grounds this weekend to ensure clean and stable.  Next will be for me to verify the ignition wiring for any pulled conductors.

  • Offline digital   es

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    Re: No Start following Gauge Cluster Shutdown
    Reply #4 on: Jun 15, 2022, 11.43 pm
    Jun 15, 2022, 11.43 pm
    It strikes me that the instrument screen goes blank. So I don't know if it means that it is completely stopped (as if it were the ignition key cut), or if it is illuminated and some icons are shown but there is no information from somewhere, such as the sound system , except that the revolution counter is at zero.

    Two positive wires enter the ignition switch, I'm saying it from memory!
    One comes from the 20A fuse and the other from the 15A. If you have a fault in the input or output cable of the 15A fuse, the brake light, horn and rear position light would fail. But the instrument panel and the engine are still working.

    If the 12 volt voltage fails, which comes from the 20A fuse either from the positive input or output cable, the instrument panel does not turn on at all, and the engine does not start.

    To give you an idea of ​​the input and output cable, here are the diagrams that I designed for the Trophy's ignition switch and sound system.

    In the second diagram, on the right side you can see the alarm connector (in this case it does not have an alarm) but there are the two bridges that I mentioned earlier.



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  • Offline trophied   us

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    Re: No Start following Gauge Cluster Shutdown
    Reply #5 on: Jun 16, 2022, 03.27 pm
    Jun 16, 2022, 03.27 pm
    You might try jumping the starter relay -WITH IT IN NEUTRAL OF COURSE, VERIFIED BY MOVING THE BIKE BACK AND FORTH FIRST.  There are two members here, me being one of them, that had a wire pull out of the connector buried down in front of the engine that gave the same symptoms.  I did troubleshooting on the neutral switch, clutch switch, side stand switch, ignition switch, solenoid, and finally ended up jumping the relay to start it per digital's suggestion.  Made a 2000 mile week long trip that way, and once home was able to get Triumph to do a good will replacement of the wiring harness and right hand switch cube, and replacement by the dealer, who confirmed the problem and showed me the old harness with the wire disconnected from the multi pin connector.  I had opened a ticket and had contacted Triumph USA twice before it finally failed completely due to exactly your symptoms, cruise control shut off, instruments went to zero momentarily then came back up and intermittent failure to start after fueling, move the handlebars and it would start.  After you have eliminated everything else, I would say you should immediately contact Triumph and get a ticket opened with them detailing the symptoms, and occurrence at speed with the cruise control set, and the intermittent failure to start after shutting it down.  Bear in mind that it will also take a dealer's diagnosis and contact with them in order to stand a chance of having the part replaced.  It is a very dangerous condition if it occurs in heavy traffic at speed and doesn't restart immediately while rolling.  Fortunately, each time mine did it I had no traffic to contend with.  Best of luck if it turns out to be the connector/wire issue.
    One of the Founding Members of the Twisted Trophies

  • Offline STJIM   us

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    Re: No Start following Gauge Cluster Shutdown
    Reply #6 on: Jun 17, 2022, 06.35 pm
    Jun 17, 2022, 06.35 pm
    Thanks for those Diagrams, Digital !!!    Another Home-Run for you.

    Also, Digital said :

    " By the way…. If you do not have an alarm, the alarm connector is located on the right side of the Trophy, just above the right footrest, this connector must have two cables that make a jumper, if one of the two mentioned cables fails, you could have problems engine stop. "

    Nice to know ! 
    IBA #35372
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    1998 ST1100

  • Offline digital   es

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    Offline digital

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    Re: No Start following Gauge Cluster Shutdown
    Reply #7 on: Jun 17, 2022, 06.56 pm
    Jun 17, 2022, 06.56 pm
    Indeed STJIM. The engine stops immediately as it cuts off the injection. That's why Triumph chose that place to connect its alarm.
    I personally don't like that place, you can imagine why...
    Only motorcyclists know why dogs stick their head out the car window.


     



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