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Offline PhilInAthens

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Dead Batteries
« on: April 29, 2014, 09:27:08 pm »
I couldn't immediately decide whether to post this in the 'Lighting & Electrical' or the 'Mechanical Issues' as the presenting problem was a dead battery condition.  Now that I know the cause, I think it belongs here.

I took delivery of my 2014 TTSE in early February.  The next day after delivery it wouldn't start and the battery was all but dead.  :023: After a night on the battery tender, it started and I rode it during which I found numerous things not working - including the audio system (i.e. Audio Off - Low Voltage).

The long made short - the bike spent a few days shy of three months in the shop while they tried to first replicate the problem and then find the problem once they did replicate it.   :157: That "problem" was that there was a significant draw on the battery (With the key off!) which could drain the battery down to 9 volts in less than an hour, and that "draw" wasn't blowing a fuse or smoking a wire in the process.   :187:

Turns out it was a faulty audio module.  Apparently, the audio module has a power supply of its own that was draining the battery down, but not with so much of an amperage draw as to blow the fuse. 

So. If you have a dead battery problem and an intermittent 'Audio Off - Low Voltage' message, you might want to pull the audio fuse to see if the draw on the battery stops happening.  If it does, you too might have a bad audio module.   :084:


Offline Coconut

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Re: Dead Batteries
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 10:11:27 am »
Hi there and Many Thanks for this useful information  :460:

Several Forum members have reported problems with their batteries draining like yours,
so I have posted the information you have provided into the "Second Dead Battery" topic
within the "Maintenance, Servicing, and Mechanical Issues" section.

I will also add this information to the HOW TO : Check the Most Common Faults & Issues Section.


Offline KenSmith

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Re: Dead Batteries
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2014, 04:42:43 pm »
What else will quit working if I remove the fuse for the audio system?

I've never used any of the audio stuff on my Trophy. I wouldn't miss it at all and it would be great to have a bike that would hold its power.

Ken Smith
Corbin, Kentucky
2014 Yamaha Super Tenere - Coming Soon
2013 Triumph Trophy SE - Going Soon
2014 Honda CTX1300 Deluxe

Offline Coconut

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Re: Dead Batteries
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2014, 05:18:12 pm »
Looking at the Wiring diagram, Fuse No.3 ( 10A ) from Fusebox 2 ( Front ) powers the Audio system,
which includes the Glove Box USB connection, so apart from losing USB audio input,
you wouldn't get any USB power there to charge stuff, and also provides power to the dedicated
GPS Power Connector ( the one tucked away behind the fairing under the left mirror housing ).

I would strongly urge anyone that has these apparantly ongoing battery issues to get their Dealer to check the Audio module,
whether you ever use the Audio system or not, and if found to be faulty, get it fixed while still under warranty,  :169:

If you leave it, you can bet that as soon as your Warranty runs out, you'll decide that you really DO want
to hear Sat Nav instructions, or get a Bluetooth bike to bike setup, or even sell the bike on
( to get a NEW one of course ),  and it will cost you LOTS to get it replaced out of warranty !
(  Current UK Retail Price = £1334.34 - add another £200 for the US XM version  :005: )




Offline DonTom

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Re: Dead Batteries
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 06:41:19 pm »
*Originally Posted by PhilInAthens [+]
Turns out it was a faulty audio module.  Apparently, the audio module has a power supply of its own that was draining the battery down, but not with so much of an amperage draw as to blow the fuse.
Did they say how much current (in ma or amps) the audio module was drawing while the key was out? To drop 3 volts in an hour with a good well charged battery  seems like quite a lot of current.

-Don-  Reno, NV
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Offline PhilInAthens

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Re: Dead Batteries
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2014, 07:53:15 pm »
*Originally Posted by DonTom [+]
Did they say how much current (in ma or amps) the audio module was drawing while the key was out? To drop 3 volts in an hour with a good well charged battery  seems like quite a lot of current.

-Don-  Reno, NV
Well, that's an interesting part of this saga.  The tech reportedly never saw the draw as it was happening on his amp meter.  It was an educated guess on his part and his guess was proved to be  true by pulling the fuse.

My assumption is it was pulling some close to, but less than 10 amps and thereby drawing the battery down - sometimes more promptly that other times. 

Coconut is right about the module being expensive.  Reportedly, it is a $2,200.xx part plus a HUGE tear down to get to it. 

Offline DonTom

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Re: Dead Batteries
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2014, 09:23:27 pm »
*Originally Posted by PhilInAthens [+]
Well, that's an interesting part of this saga.  The tech reportedly never saw the draw as it was happening on his amp meter.  It was an educated guess on his part and his guess was proved to be  true by pulling the fuse.

My assumption is it was pulling some close to, but less than 10 amps and thereby drawing the battery down - sometimes more promptly that other times. 

Coconut is right about the module being expensive.  Reportedly, it is a $2,200.xx part plus a HUGE tear down to get to it.
If he never saw the current draw, how can he prove anything by removing the audio fuse?

At ten amps, the thin  wire could even start to melt, if the ten amp audio fuse doesn't blow. I kinda doubt the audio module is really the problem, but I won't bet my life on it quite yet.

My guess is still something in the alternator, such as an intermittent short or bad diode on the output. That could easily draw ten amps without any other obvious system while the ignition is off. And it's only fused by the main fuse, which is a 20 amp fuse and ain't going to blow with any ten amp load.

So I am going to disagree with your dealer and I will bet I am better qualified to guess an electrical problem than he is. But for your sake, I hope I am wrong and the problem is really fixed. But don't bet on it quite yet.

-Don-  Reno, NV
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 09:35:51 pm by DonTom »
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Offline DonTom

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Re: Dead Batteries
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 02:10:42 am »
*Originally Posted by PhilInAthens [+]
Well, that's an interesting part of this saga.  The tech reportedly never saw the draw as it was happening on his amp meter.  It was an educated guess on his part and his guess was proved to be  true by pulling the fuse.
I forgot to ask an important question . . .

Did the audio system seem to work okay, such as loud enough on both speakers?  I would think if there's a short in the audio system, it will have other syptoms.  For an example, say an audio output transistor shouts out. That could draw a lot of current. But then, there would be no audio from that side of the stereo system. IOW, at east one speaker would be dead.

OTOH, in  an alternator assembly (which includes the rectifiers and regulator)  such as the TTSE has, things can short out and give no other obvious systems.

It would be easier to take a good guess of the problem if we had complete schematics of the audio system as well as the alternator assembly because not everything has the exact same design. However, there are legitimate reasons why I think the audio module probably wasn't the real problem and the alternator assembly is more likely to be the culprit.

-Don-  Reno, NV
1971 Black BMW R75/5/* 1984 Red Yamaha Venture* 2002 Yellow Suzuki DR200SE* 2013 Blue Triumph Trophy SE*2016 Orange/Black Kaw Versy 650 LT*2016 Orange Moto Guzzi Stelvio* 2017 Gold/Black Harley FLTRU RoadGlide Ultra*2017 Zero 6.5DS* 2017 Zero SR13 w/Pwr Tank*2020 Energica SS9

 



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