Author [NL] [FR] [ES] [DE] [SE] [IT] How To: Adjust TTSE Valves  (Read 55924 times)

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  • Offline kirkkw

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      #128

    Offline kirkkw

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    Re: How To: Adjust TTSE Valves
    Reply #128 on: Apr 22, 2022, 06.59 am
    Apr 22, 2022, 06.59 am
    *Originally Posted by earthman [+]
    Thanks Rick, I've also found the Wiha 29206 model, still not sure what's on the business end of this, at the end of the day the Triumph timing tensioner needs a 6mm Allen bit to fit into it, will any of these tools take such a bit without some DIY 'engineering/adapting',...I dunno.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wiha-Tools-Torque-Finish-Handle/dp/B00K2FWEV6

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wiha-Tools-Torque-Finish-Handle/dp/B00K2FWEV6

    I purchased the Wiha 29206 easy torque handle and a 1/4" hex bit holder for a total delivered price of $54 from Transcat https://www.transcat.com/

    Wiha USA lists the tool and various bits.
    https://www.wihatools.com/torque-control-drivers-handles-blades/torquecontrol-tools/preset-handles





    Wiha lists several adapters but I chose a 1/4" hex.  There is also a 1/4" square
    https://www.wihatools.com/torquecontrol-square-drive-adapter-blade-for-1-4-sockets

    The Triumph special tools are:
    T3880640   1   $ 36.43   Camshaft Timing Plate
    T3880607   1   $ 36.82   Camshaft Timing Tensioner

    Together they cost $73 delivered.

    I will use a 5.5 or 6mm drill bit to stop the engine rotation.

    The Triumph 1215 Trophy Engine Service Kit T3990022 kit is $140 delivered by Amazon

    That puts me at $267 plus oil and spark plugs? to complete the 20K mile service.

    That only leaves me to actually learn how to do the service. 



  • Offline Spanish Andy

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      #129

    Offline Spanish Andy

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    Re: How To: Adjust TTSE Valves
    Reply #129 on: Jul 05, 2022, 02.32 pm
    Jul 05, 2022, 02.32 pm
    Apparently my bike had just it's 32K Km service when I bought it (stamped by a Triumph dealer), so at the 48K Km service I didn't bother opening it up to check valve clearances. Now doing the 64K Km service and the exhaust valves are way out of spec - two of them are just above 0.150mm and others just about 0.200mm. The timing is also out, but not drastically.

    Has anyone else had similar out of spec valve clearances at 64K KM's service ? 

  • Offline kirkkw

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    Offline kirkkw

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    Re: How To: Adjust TTSE Valves
    Reply #130 on: Aug 08, 2022, 06.30 am
    Aug 08, 2022, 06.30 am
    Its been over two months since I adjusted the valves and I wanted to let everyone know how it went, what I found and what I did wrong.

    First the positive is that I road the bike on an extended trip (about 3K miles) without any problems so I must have not created a significant problem during the valve adjust.  Average 47.8 MPG with most miles in the 70-80mph range, in fact I road 850 one day with all the miles in sunlight except the last 30 minutes.

    In an earlier post someone said expect 20 hours yet I spent quite a bit more than that.  Since I don't have internet in the shop I made a Word doc by copying the text and photos which are in the first page of this thread.  Finally, I read all 17 pages of this thread and as described below I adjusted the valves twice.

    I ended up changing all exhaust and 3 of the intake valves.  I tend to like looser valves so aimed at the maximum versus the midpoint. 

    The HOTCAMS kit shims are in .05mm increments which happens to be the total difference between the minimum and maximum specs for the valves.  Therefore, if you want to increase the clearance .035mm the .05mm shim increment will result in the clearance being .015mm above your target.

    I found it very challenging to get a "feeling" of the actual clearances.  I took apart 2 or 3 sets of feeler gauges to get every gauge in the range .004" (minimum of intake) to .013" (maximum of exhaust).  Primarily, my difficulty related to the fact the valves at the front of the engine were below the lip of the head (where the valve cover rests).  I found it best to put a 70 or 80 degree bend in all the gauges about 3/4" from the end so that they would slide under the valve without contacting the lip of the head. 

    Unfortunately, I didn't realize my issue with my poor measurements until after I had adjusted some of the valves.  When doing what I thought was a final check of the adjusted valves I realized that my measuring "feeling" technique was poor and thus my measurements were poor.  So I had to start over and again adjust several of the valves.

    This frustration resulted in my failing to properly update my measurement spreadsheet the second time around so at this point my spreadsheet may not accurately reflect my results.  However, I know that no valve is below the minimum tolerance yet certainly some of them are above the maximum tolerance. 

    Since the gap between the min and max spec is .05mm or .002" I think it is virtually impossible to stay within those specs as "feeling" the difference between .011" versus .012" when measuring is difficult.  If you conclude that the gap is .011" when it is really .012" then you will be off by 1/2 of the total range in the spec.

    After finally getting all the valves where I am happy and resting the chain tensioner per the manual I reinstalled the airbox and fuel tank to give it a go.  The manual said to expect a lot of noise in the first 5 seconds after start-up.  Crank, crank I get no start up. 

    Dealer Tool says codes P1135, P1574 and P2111 with P2111 being the culprit - throttle stuck open.  Manual says to do a manual inspection so off comes the tank again.  Throttle is not stuck as I can manually move the butterflys (butterflies) then low and behold I see that I did not plug in the electrical connection to the motor which moves the throttle.  Dummy Dummy Dummy. 

    Reinstall the fuel tank, but the Triumph service kit only included 2 aluminum crash washers for the bango bolt on the fuel line.  Do I risk reusing the new ones I just installed an hour before?

    Yes, it probably would be fine, but do I risk fuel leaking under all that bodywork?  If so, my first hint of a leak might be a fire or if I am lucky and smell the leak do I want to remove all the bodywork and gas tank to replace washers on a fuel line bango bolt?  No, I pulled some washers from my BMW aluminum washer collection and fitted new ones for the second time.   

    Also the Triumph kit did not include the gasket for the gas tank which must be opened to change the fuel filter (which was included in the kit).  I believe the manual says to replace that gasket so the filter was not changed.  Changing the fuel filter after 20K miles doesn't seem very important when you consider many car's fuel filter aren't changed in the first 100K miles.  Those cars burn 2 to 4 times the gas the Trophy burns.  Me thinks, its fine as is.

    Note: when my bike started it did not make the noise warned about in the manual.  This my have been because I had a crank and no start due to leaving the electrical connection off as discussed above.

    Advice to others:
    1. make sure the shim kit includes the correct shims - the label on my kit was wrong and it included the wrong diameter of shims.
    2. purchase the fuel tank gasket to be able to change the fuel filter.
    3. have extra aluminum washers on hand (several sizes: gas tank bango bolt, rear drive drain and fill, engine oil drain etc.
    4. bend your feeler gauges so that they don't contact other surfaces
    5. go slow and make sure the engine rotation stop is removed when turning over the engine
    6. Since my feeler gauges were in inches I made a table converting .001" to .025mm i.e. .004" = .102mm and .005" = .127mm.  (The spreadsheet and shims are in mm) 
    7. the service kit did not include some screws/bolts/fasteners which the manual said to discard and not reuse.  I can't remember at this time which fasteners it was referring to.  It was not the ones on the ends of the cam shafts as they were included in the service kit.  Maybe it was the ones on the timing chain cover, I just can't be sure.
    8. use the thread on removing the plastic skin https://www.triumph-trophy.com/index.php/topic,832.0.html
    9. Also Coconut made a diagram of where all the screws on the skin go and their sizes.  Very helpful



  • Offline Peds8045

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    Offline Peds8045

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    Re: How To: Adjust TTSE Valves
    Reply #131 on: Dec 03, 2022, 05.08 pm
    Dec 03, 2022, 05.08 pm
    SoÖ. I completed my 20000 mile service about ten days ago after following the procedure at the start of this thread, the procedure in the manual and a few other videos on Youtube. Here are are few things I found or did different as it went along:

    1. I used a 5.5mm drill bit to lock the crankshaft. This provided a more positive engagement than the 6mm drill bit.
    2. I purchased a piece of 7mm x 100mm stainless steel square bar to slot into the camshaft timing slots instead of the Triumph tool. It worked really well and only cost £2.80.
    3. I purchased a calibrated torque wrench (0.6Nm) Sealey STS103 (0.5 to 5Nm) for £48. Never had to use it but is available should I need to change the cam chain tensioner in the future.
    4. Banjo washers for the fuel tank connection.
    5. Full 20000 mile service kit from Streetbike. They supply genuine Triumph parts which includes everything you need at a lower cost than other well known UK suppliers.

    Overall the task went well and as Iím retired I was able to spread the task over a few days. Here are a few lessons I learnt along the way.

    1. Make sure you tie wrap the cam chain to the sprockets BEFORE you remove the cam chain tensioner. I know the procedure says to do this but I didnít and the cam chain jumped a couple of teeth meaning my timing was out at start of reassembly. ( my 7mm square bar aligned the cams perfectly on reassembly which sorted this)
    2. Although I torque tightened the fuel feed pipe to the tank correctly, after refitting the fuel tank and test starting the bike I noticed a fuel leak from the banjo union. So I loosened off the tank, lifted the rear and supported it with a piece of wood and further tightened the banjo bolt in excess of the recommended torque to stop the leak.
    3. When I had reassembled the cam ladder the first time after changing my exhaust shims, I rotated the engine and it was a little harder to turn than before. I ALMOST convinced myself that it was ok! The voice in my head from the procedure in this thread said STOP. I removed the cam ladder checked the cam timing with the 7mm steel bar and had to adjust the chain by about two teeth. Reassembled again and this time the engine rotation was easy. If Iíd ignored the stiff engine and started the engine it would have been costly.
    4. After final assembly, including all the plastic, I started it up and it started first time. I connected the Tigertool to check the throttle balance which was spot on. I checked for error messages and to my dismay there was a message showing an issue with the SAI. It wouldnít reset with tigertool so I tried the battery disconnection
     routine and three startups but the engine management light stayed on. Anyway ten days later after returning from the USA I removed the plastic to investigate the fault. Low and behold I had not connected the cable to the air box (lower right side) so I connected the cable, checked the tigertool, cleared the error and the engine management light went out. Lesson learned, check for errors and cable connections BEFORE you put the plastic back on.

    Overall Iím pleased with my efforts and it was good to complete this sort of service again. I would not hesitate to do it again as it saved me around £700 over Triumph prices. Total cost to me was £249.32 and £48 of that was for the 0.6Nm torque wrench that I never used.  :763:

  • Offline STJIM   us

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      #132

    Offline STJIM

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    Re: How To: Adjust TTSE Valves
    Reply #132 on: Dec 04, 2022, 01.20 am
    Dec 04, 2022, 01.20 am
    As far as checking the valve clearances before & after changing any required shims, I do a "no go" check.  Increase the thickness of your feeler gages in 0.0005 inch increments until the gage won't go in easily.  Then you know the clearance is less than that by probably less than 0.0005 inch of the current stack.

    When i did mine,  my goal was to adjust the intakes as close I could to the spec and on the exhaust valves to the high end of the spec.  That will keep the exhaust valves on the seat a little longer to help heat transfer from the valve face to the head.

    BTW, shims are available in quantities of each with a better ( small increment ) assortment available from Rocky Mountain ATV.  You don't need to buy a kit with a lot of shims that won't be needed.  If you can't read the size engraved on any shim that needs to be swapped-out, measure it with a micrometer, not a dial caliper for a more accurate reading to determine what size replacement shim is needed.   Sometimes an old shim can be used in another position ( if you are on a tight budget and / or have a wife like mine ).  :002:

    They don't have a listing for the Trophy but the Yamaha VMAX uses the same diameter ( 9.48 mm ) shims :   

    https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/parts/pro-x-valve-shim-p?v=12367
    Last Edit: Dec 04, 2022, 01.38 am by STJIM
    IBA #35372  Mile Eater Gold 8-2022
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    1998 ST1100

  • Offline trophied   us

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    Re: How To: Adjust TTSE Valves
    Reply #133 on: Dec 04, 2022, 03.14 pm
    Dec 04, 2022, 03.14 pm
    All good information that has me seriously considering doing my next maintenance (a big one).  The main reason I would consider doing it myself is that I have found missing body part screws in the past, which has me concerned about the overall attention given to the service.  Yes, I've put things back together and found fasteners after I'm done too, and had to retrace the steps!  I've also added things that required some wiring that I'm not sure a tech would bother taking care to route and reinstall, like dual horns and other electrical provisions such as waterproof USB ports.
    Last Edit: Dec 04, 2022, 03.18 pm by trophied
    One of the Founding Members of the Twisted Trophies

  • Offline STJIM   us

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    Offline STJIM

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    Re: How To: Adjust TTSE Valves
    Reply #134 on: Dec 04, 2022, 07.08 pm
    Dec 04, 2022, 07.08 pm
    If I think I can actually complete any maintenance or repair,  I'll give it  shot.

    And the chances are I may even do a good job.
    IBA #35372  Mile Eater Gold 8-2022
    BBG  5-2014  SS3K 9-2020
    Great Lakes 100 :  2011/2019/2022
    2015 TTSE , 2008 Concours C-14
    1998 ST1100

  • Offline digital   es

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    Offline digital

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    Re: How To: Adjust TTSE Valves
    Reply #135 on: Dec 04, 2022, 09.56 pm
    Dec 04, 2022, 09.56 pm
    *Originally Posted by STJIM [+]
    If I think I can actually complete any maintenance or repair,  I'll give it  shot.

    And the chances are I may even do a good job.

    I have no doubt that you do a good jobÖ
    It is a very delicate job, since any mistake that is made, the cost of the destruction that can be done, is to pull the hairs on your head.

    Some people who claim to be motorcycle mechanics, when they touch a valve adjustment of this type of motorcycle, make mistakes that after a few kilometers the engine has serious faults such as touching a valve to a piston or the distribution chain does its thing.
    Only motorcyclists know why dogs stick their head out the car window.