Author [NL] [FR] [ES] [DE] [SE] [IT] TTC and TC with Check Engine light on.  (Read 5624 times)

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  • Offline ColinM

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    Offline ColinM

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    TTC and TC with Check Engine light on.
    on: Oct 10, 2017, 06.35 pm
    Oct 10, 2017, 06.35 pm
    When I was riding on the highway sometimes the speed control would disconnect. Sometimes I would lose power and the bike would stop.
    ma
    over a month as time went on it seemed to get worse each day. Happening more often.

    This was after I had my front tire changed. I won't go into the horror story of that one.

    It got to the point where the bike when starting off would stutter and shudder with the TC light blinking. Which made the bike unrideable.

    I decided to turn off the TTC from the console under "Bike Adjustment". This made my bike go with no issues.

    Then I read somewhere that the problem could be with the speed sensor with too much space.  Or Im wondering if the nerd that changed my tire damaged the speed sensor? He had already busted the tire valve taking the tire off.

    I did try to power wash the wheels in case the was a bit of dirt or something blocking the speed sensor. But after that episode the bike wouldn't go even if the TTC was turned off. The next day after drying out it would work okay with TTC turned off.

    Anyone else have a similiar issue?

    Colin

  • Offline Coconut   gb

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    Offline Coconut

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    Re: TTC and TC with Check Engine light on.
    Reply #1 on: Oct 10, 2017, 09.18 pm
    Oct 10, 2017, 09.18 pm
    Hi ColinM,

    I can't recall anyone reporting exactly the same problem,
    but the TTC system does use the Anti Lock Braking System ( ABS ) sensors
    to control the Traction Control system, where the usual scenario is the system senses
    that the rear wheel is starting to accelerate more quickly than the front one
    and reduces engine power to prevent the "slip".

    Just as a note - it's generally not a good idea to use a high pressure water jet
    on electrical sensors, or near wheel bearings etc - it's possible to do more harmthan good !

    The first thing to do is check which, if any, Dynamic Trouble Codes ( DTC's )
    have been stored.  It's easy to check this and have any stored DTC's displayed
    on your Instrument Panel Display - see this Topic for instructions :

    Servicing Data, Reference Info. & DTC ( Fault ) Codes -
    See Reply #5, at the foot of which you will find a "Word" document that you can download -
    this gives information about what the various DTC's mean.

    In view of the tire changing fiasco, it is reasonable to suspect that they also
    :172: ed up, and either damaged the sensor, or more likely bent the ABS pulser ring -
    which is quite soft material.


    Get the Trophy up onto the centre stand and get an assistant to sit on the pillion seat
    so the front wheel is off the ground, then spin the wheel while observing the pulser ring
    to see if there is any noticable run-out. 

    There should be a constant air gap between the edge of the pulser ring
    and the speed sensor of between 0.1mm and 1.5mm.

    If there is any run-out in the pulser ring then you may be able to gently bend
    it back again until it runs true.  If the gap is constant but out of the above tolerances,
    shims ( available from Triumph ) can be fitted to reposition the sensor.

    Check the condition of all the gaps in the Pulser Ring,
    which should all be clean and uniformy spaced.

    ALSO check the same thing on the rear wheel - just in case !

    Last Edit: Mar 26, 2020, 02.36 pm by Coconut

  • Offline ColinM

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    Offline ColinM

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    Re: TTC and TC with Check Engine light on.
    Reply #2 on: Oct 11, 2017, 02.46 am
    Oct 11, 2017, 02.46 am
    Awesome information, thank you. I'll look at all this tomorrow (Wednesday). I'll let you know what I find.

    On another note, I mentioned that things were better after the power wash (I know what you said :) ) and that I could turn off TTC and now ride the bike. Well I went for a longer ride this afternoon 120km or so, stopped at mcdees for a coffee after about an hour of riding, started up again without turning the TTC off and lo and behold it ran almost okay, just stuttered a little at the start. Then after about 10 mins I got the warning that the TTC was disabled. Even though it was still showing ON in the TTC Mode menu option.

    Anyway thanks for all the information, I will work on it tomorrow. I'm retired so have lots of time on my hands. I have a service manual. I've been following you since I got mine in 2012. You've helped me out a lot over the years.

    My wife and her sister were dropping off her daughter in Birmingham a few weeks ago for University of Birmingham. My wifes sister is from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. Long way to go.

    Colin

    I can reset the disabled TTC by turning the bike off then restarting it.

  • Offline Coconut   gb

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    Offline Coconut

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    Re: TTC and TC with Check Engine light on.
    Reply #3 on: Oct 11, 2017, 06.09 am
    Oct 11, 2017, 06.09 am
    H Colin,

    It will be interesting to see what DTC's are there !  :169:

    I hope the information provided will help identify and rectify the problem  :028:

    ( Birmingham University is about 10 minutes from me,
    and has a very good reputation  :169: )

    Cheers  :821:


    Last Edit: Mar 26, 2020, 02.33 pm by Coconut

  • Offline janfmiller   us

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    Offline janfmiller

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    Re: TTC and TC with Check Engine light on.
    Reply #4 on: Oct 11, 2017, 03.31 pm
    Oct 11, 2017, 03.31 pm
    The front sensor ring is easily bend, and if it wobbles it will error-out the ABS and TTC.   It is easily straightened as well, it is very ( too ) soft material.  happened to mine twice so far, no idea what caused it in either case, but it is possible the gorilla changing your tire pushed on it.  Worth a look..  Just spin the wheel, it'll be obvious..
    1977 Suzuki TS-185
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  • Offline ColinM

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    Offline ColinM

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    Re: TTC and TC with Check Engine light on.
    Reply #5 on: Oct 11, 2017, 08.20 pm
    Oct 11, 2017, 08.20 pm
    Well I checked the codes, here is what I got:

    P0500 Speed Sensor malfunction
    P1521 Lost communication with ABS.

    So, I unscrewed cables from the battery and wiggled the connections around then screwed them back on.

    Went for a spin, Just a short one in my t shirt and shorts as it's 10c and rainy.

    ABS light went out for first time in a few weeks, check engine light was out. no problems accelerating or stopping hard. But I did see the ABS light blink really quickly when I hit a bump which is how it all started. Perhaps a loose wire?

    Checked trouble codes again and I got this:

    P0000 no logged trouble codes.

    Colin


  • Offline GaryWWhite   us

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    Offline GaryWWhite

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    Re: TTC and TC with Check Engine light on.
    Reply #6 on: Oct 11, 2017, 09.15 pm
    Oct 11, 2017, 09.15 pm
     :046: Way to go Colin!!  :152:

  • Offline Coconut   gb

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    Offline Coconut

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    Re: TTC and TC with Check Engine light on.
    Reply #7 on: Oct 11, 2017, 09.26 pm
    Oct 11, 2017, 09.26 pm
    Hi again,

    OK, we now have something to work with !

    I've checked the Service manual for the Troubleshooting information
    relating to those codes, which may help ....

    P0500 : Vehicle Speed Sensor Malfunction : The Service Manual states "Refer to C1613" !

    P0500 doesn't identify whether this relates to the front or rear
    wheel speed sensor, so either of them could be the culprit,
    although as there a number of DTC's that ARE specific to the Front Wheel Sensor etc,
    and as you don't have any of those, the likelihood is that it is the REAR Wheel Sensor,
    or associated wiring connections, that are at fault.

    C1613 is specific : "REAR wheel sensor short circuit to ground or open circuit",
    and gives suggested actions to check the ABS ECM connector is secure,
    and the Wheel speed sensor connector is secure.

    There is then a lengthy set of Tests to identify whether it is a cable fault,
    or a Speed Sensor fault.

    Before dismantling things I'd check to see if that Sensor is clean
    around the area where it is closest to the rear wheel Pulser Ring
    and also check the Pulser ring like you did for the front one.

    The additional DTC P1521 - "Lost Communication with ABS",
    doesn't help much - this could be caused by a faulty sensor,
    or a poor connection at either of the above connections.

    The troubleshooting tests for this DTC are checking the connections
    between the ABS Modulator and the Main ECM.

    The rear wheel speed sensor is more difficult to get at - the wires to it follow the same route
    as the brake pipe, so you can follow that and will locate the sensor on the Final Drive Unit.
    It is held in place by a single fixing that the Service Manual states should be discarded
    and replaced with a new one ( Part No. T3330334 ) if it is removed !

    The wiring multi-plug for both wheel sensors are buried away behind the left side Control Plate,
    ( that the riders footrest is attached to ), as is the ABS Modulator / ECM.
     
    It's a bit of a "mission" to remove the Control Plate as it is secured
    with three different types of fixing - Three Torx bolts held tight with "Blue Loctite"
    ( that "should" also be discarded and replaced with new ones - Part No. T2020609 ),
    a Bolt & Nut (14mm spanner ), and an 8mm Hex Bolt.

    If you are confident in removing the Control Plate and conducting electrical continuity tests,
    send me a PM with your personal email address, and I will send you further information
    on the Troubleshooting tests to perform. ( Please don't post you email address in these
    Publicly visible Forum pages unless you really like being bombarded with Spam ! ).

    If you end up needing a new Rear Wheel Speed Sensor ( T2024443 ),
    have a look here, or any authorised Triumph Dealer :

    Triumph Trophy Rear Wheel Speed Sensor T2024443 ( US $138.73 ! )

    Cheers,

    Last Edit: Mar 26, 2020, 02.12 pm by Coconut