Author [NL] [FR] [ES] [DE] [SE] [IT] Topic: Engine cranks but won’t start  (Read 2564 times)

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  • Offline Saddle Tramp   us

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    Offline Saddle Tramp

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    Engine cranks but won’t start
    on: Oct 13, 2019, 03.06 pm
    Oct 13, 2019, 03.06 pm
    So, last week I barely escaped the North Woods of Wisconsin, headed for Phoenix before the snow flew. During the 1,800+ mile ride down, the Trophy performed flawlessly. When I reached Phoenix, and its 90 degree temperatures, I made a few stops in town. At the third stop in a relatively short period of time, my Trophy starter cranked properly, but the engine would not turn over. Despite repeated attempts allowing ample time for the starter to cool, and the battery to regenerate, the engine just wouldn’t turn over. Finally, I engaged first gear, and tried to paddle up to enough speed on my loaded bike on the flat parking lot to bump start the Trophy. My futile effort at creating enough speed to actually bump start the bike failed miserably, but to my surprise, when I tried the starter again, she fired right up.  :046:
    I immediately rode over to GO AZ Powersports, which happened to be only a short distance away, and left the bike running while I went inside to talk to the Service Guys. They kindly offered to immediately have their Triumph expert take a look at it.
    Of course, he shut the bike off, and it has not failed to start since. He hooked up their Dealer Tool to check for faults, and ran a complete diagnosis, and could find nothing amiss. Since then, the Trophy has not failed to start promptly, but I must admit that I am a little concerned about getting stranded with the same problem at the most inconvenient time.
    Any ideas?

  • Offline Coconut   gb

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    Offline Coconut

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    Re: Engine cranks but won’t start
    Reply #1 on: Oct 13, 2019, 03.35 pm
    Oct 13, 2019, 03.35 pm
    First off,  If trying to "Bump Start" I'd use 2nd or even 3rd gear.

    I don't understand the comment :
    ".... my Trophy starter cranked properly, but the engine would not turn over."

    Do you mean the Starter was operating AND tunring the engine over,
    but the engine did not then run when the Starter button was released ?

    If so, and it's a wild guess, then I'm wondering if this could be due to low voltage
    while the Starter is cranking, affecting the Spark at the plugs, or even the Fuel Injection ?

    The Starter motor does draw a LOT of power from the Battery while cranking,
    so I would double check the Main Battery terminals are clean and tight,
    the connections to and from the Starter Solenoid, and at the Starter motor itself,
    plus the connection from the Battery Earth terminal to Ground,
    which I think is accessible by removing thhe right Fairing.

    Cheers  :821:


    Last Edit: Jul 02, 2020, 07.24 pm by Coconut

  • Offline Saddle Tramp   us

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    Offline Saddle Tramp

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    Re: Engine cranks but won’t start
    Reply #2 on: Oct 13, 2019, 03.56 pm
    Oct 13, 2019, 03.56 pm
    Thanks for the quick response, Coconut!
    I definitely should have used a higher gear! The old legs aren’t as powerful as they used to be.  :164:

    Yes, the starter was doing it’s job properly, the engine just wouldn’t turn over.
    It felt like a fueling issue to me. The first thing the Dealer did was to remove the access cover for the battery, and check the voltage and cranking amps, as well as connections. He reported all as being in great condition. He also checked to make sure the fuel pump and throttle bodies were performing properly, which they indeed were. He actually said that the throttle bodies were in perfect balance. He also asked me if I had recently filled the petrol tank, which I had not. Apparently, if you over-fill the tank, it can cause a temporary problem with fuel flow. Good to know, but not an issue here.

  • Offline Coconut   gb

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    Offline Coconut

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    Re: Engine cranks but won’t start
    Reply #3 on: Oct 13, 2019, 04.28 pm
    Oct 13, 2019, 04.28 pm
    Not a cheap part to replace but this "could" also be the Crankshaft Position Sensor on its way out,
    or a poor connection at the Sensor or main ECM. ( Part Number T1291921 ).

    There is a Fault Code ( P0335 ) associated with this Sensor circuit though,
    and it sounds like the Dealer didn't find any Fault Codes.

    It's function is to detect movement of a toothed wheel attached to the flywheel rotor.
    The toothed wheel gives a reference point from which the actual crankshaft position is calculated.
    That information is used by the ECM to determine the timing of Ignition and Fuel Injection.

    If it happens again, check for yourself straight away to see if any Fault codes ( "DTC's" )
    have been stored - hold in the Scroll UP and "i" buttons while switching on the Ignition,
    and keep them held in until the Instruments have completed their sweep.
    ( Many of the Codes get deleted from Memory after a certain number of "no Fault" starts,
    that can make the diagnosis of intermittent faults quite difficult ).

    "P0000" is good - it means there are NO DTC's stored.

    Last Edit: Jul 02, 2020, 07.23 pm by Coconut

  • Offline Saddle Tramp   us

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    Offline Saddle Tramp

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    Re: Engine cranks but won’t start
    Reply #4 on: Oct 13, 2019, 05.04 pm
    Oct 13, 2019, 05.04 pm
    Thanks for that last bit of advice, Coconut.
    Hopefully I won’t have to put it to the test!  :016:

    As far as the Crankshaft Position Sensor is concerned, I actually experienced a failure of one of those on a Honda ST1300 I owned a number of years ago. In that case, the failure started exhibiting itself while underway, with the engine briefly “cutting out” with increasing frequency. I have had no such occurrence here.

    Either way, I still have a little over a year of warranty coverage in which to get it sorted out.  :028:
    Last Edit: Oct 13, 2019, 05.12 pm by Saddle Tramp

  • Offline janfmiller   us

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    Offline janfmiller

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    Re: Engine cranks but won’t start
    Reply #5 on: Oct 13, 2019, 09.30 pm
    Oct 13, 2019, 09.30 pm
    C-nut is spot on as always....

    I'd guess at a poor connection at the battery, as it's simple and cheap  (:>  Especially if no codes...

    Neither my KLR or new ATwin will start if the battery is down, turn over like a million bucks, but will not fire.  Just not enough power to both turn the engine and energize the ignition parts.
    I clean the battery terminal contacts on the TTSE as a rite of Spring.  ATwin and KLR batteries are buried, so only as needed...  Got a new battery for the KLR a few years back on a trip far away from home.
     Battery was getting old so ASSumed it had died...but found it was just the ground was loose after I dug my way down to the battery; fired right up after a tighten... but put the new one in anyway... due...

    1977 Suzuki TS-185
    1974 Kawasaki Z-1 903
    2021 Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports ES NON-DCT

  • Offline Saddle Tramp   us

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    Offline Saddle Tramp

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    Re: Engine cranks but won’t start
    Reply #6 on: Oct 13, 2019, 09.50 pm
    Oct 13, 2019, 09.50 pm
    The battery was the first thing the Triumph Tech checked when he brought the bike into the shop. The connections were fine, and it load tested as new. It definitely has nothing to do with the battery.

  • Offline janfmiller   us

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    Offline janfmiller

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    Re: Engine cranks but won’t start
    Reply #7 on: Oct 13, 2019, 10.08 pm
    Oct 13, 2019, 10.08 pm
    Saddle Tramp, 3 years back to took the TTSE Snowbird to TX.  When I got there the oil pressure light came on first startup. 

    No distress evident from the engine, but.. couldn't roll with the light on. 

    Sometimes it'd go off, but come back on.  Monkeyed for 2 days, pulled the fairings, figured it was a bad OP sensor, but it is unbelievably buried.  Hosed it down, what I could see of it, with WD-40 after trying everything else I could think of, hoping maybe corrosion.  No joy.  Next morning my buddy was going to come over with his trailer so we could haul her to San Antonio.   Decided to try it one more time.

    Oil Pressure Light did not come on.
    Never came on the rest of the trip ( except when the engine was off before starting .. as it should )
    Never came on again.. not once ... ever....

    But I live in fear of it....  :020: :148: :005: :012: :114:
    1977 Suzuki TS-185
    1974 Kawasaki Z-1 903
    2021 Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports ES NON-DCT