Author [NL] [FR] [ES] [DE] [SE] [IT] Topic: cam chain noise.... perplexed  (Read 4281 times)

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  • Offline pohm66

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    Offline pohm66

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    • Bike: 2014 TTSE
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    cam chain noise.... perplexed
    on: Dec 05, 2019, 10.35 pm
    Dec 05, 2019, 10.35 pm
    My 2014 Trophy has done about 20,000ks and for the last 3000k or so I have noticed the cam chain rattle at cold start up slowly taking longer to disappear.

    As the rattle would disappear the general consensus was that the hydraulic tensioner was probably the culprit so I have now put in a new tensioner  ( doing up a "how to...") as well as another fresh dose of Castrol but alas the rattle is still there.  When the motor is under load no rattle but as soon as I coast off the throttle I hear the noise. Definitely coming from the cam chain area.

    What perplexes me is why does the rattle always totally vanish once the engine is up to full operating temperature?? About 3-4 minutes.

    I would assume that IF the chain etc was stretched that it would rattle all the time, as per other experiences. So I am left wonder... What is so special about the engine temp that it would stop the noise.

    Oh,,,, I live in Brisbane Australia and its summer here so cold starts aren't COLD.

    Any thought???

    Cheers..
    Paul
    Currently 2014 Pacific Blue TTSE & 1994 Speed Triple
    Previous Trumpy's
       95 Speed Triple
       69 Trophy Custom in rigid frame (built not bought)

  • Offline LarryJa   us

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    Offline LarryJa

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    Re: cam chain noise.... perplexed
    Reply #1 on: Dec 06, 2019, 02.28 am
    Dec 06, 2019, 02.28 am
    I'm most interested in what the true remedy is for this problem.
    My trophy(2013 w/60k+ miles & head recall already done) has a chain rattle only on "hot starts" after it's been sitting on the sidestand. It does not do it after cold starts, or if the bike is up on the centerstand.
    Only, if I've had the warm bike parked on the sidestand. Then, it'll rattle for 20-60 seconds, after I lift the bike up off the stand & start it.
    A very curious dilemma...
    So, this is one that I'm carrying on my future maintenance/repair list as the correct repair become more clear.
    So, I'll stay tuned...
    Last Edit: Dec 06, 2019, 02.31 am by LarryJa
    A good man once told me, "Don't sell your bike. It's your soul."....

  • Offline earthman   gb

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    Re: cam chain noise.... perplexed
    Reply #2 on: Dec 06, 2019, 07.04 pm
    Dec 06, 2019, 07.04 pm
    My thoughts,... were the camshaft timing checked, did the slots in the camshafts line up or need adjusting?
    Were the special tool and a 0.6Nm torque wrench used to set the first stage of chain tension?

    Maybe the chain is stretched close to it's limit, don't suppose you removed/checked/measured it according to the manual?

    My guess is that a small amount of stretch could be taken up when the other engine components get warm/expand slightly, hence why you may only hear rattle from stone cold??   

  • Offline Wilko   gb

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    Offline Wilko

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    Re: cam chain noise.... perplexed
    Reply #3 on: Dec 06, 2019, 08.29 pm
    Dec 06, 2019, 08.29 pm
    I have posted here recently about the cam chain being worn.

    My TTSE is a 2013 reg with as of today, 26200 miles on it, at 2500 miles the cam chain was "noisy", a trip to my local dealer, and a listen to by their head technician, he confirmed that it was worn, on strip down, the tensioner was also at it's limit, it was said that I was lucky it hadn't jumped a tooth or two on the sprockets, so both, tensioner and chain was replaced.

    It's now a different bike, but for a couple of seconds at start up, there is the normal "rattle" until the oil is pushed around the engine.
    Paul Wilko

  • Offline pohm66

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    Offline pohm66

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    Re: cam chain noise.... perplexed
    Reply #4 on: Dec 07, 2019, 12.23 am
    Dec 07, 2019, 12.23 am
    If it is a stretched cam chain I'll be hissed off as the rattle started at about 16,000k (10,000 miles).

    What sort of chain only lasts that sort of distance?? Bike had 3 prior oil changes had done mostly highway work.

    As for the tensioner replacement apparently no need to pull the top end off. Local major Triumph mechanics quoted 2 1/2 to 3 hours labour including Tupperware removal etc. The manual is totally geared round total strip down of chain etc hence locking to TDC. As long as chain and sliders locked into position prior to tensioner removal nothing moves so swap out is straight forward.

    Just recently had the major service done where valve clearances etc were checked.

    The heat expansion of the components taking up the slack just enough to easy the rattle is a fair call.... Could be onto something here...

    A guy at work, Triumph rider, suggested another mechanic.. He has a racing/ drag bike background.. I think I'll pay him a visit on Monday
    Last Edit: Dec 07, 2019, 12.55 am by pohm66
    Paul
    Currently 2014 Pacific Blue TTSE & 1994 Speed Triple
    Previous Trumpy's
       95 Speed Triple
       69 Trophy Custom in rigid frame (built not bought)

  • Offline Wilko   gb

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    Offline Wilko

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    Re: cam chain noise.... perplexed
    Reply #5 on: Dec 07, 2019, 09.44 pm
    Dec 07, 2019, 09.44 pm
    pohm66, the chain Wear's more than stretch, my bike has been serviced religiously, an Independent ex Triumph Mechanic, said there was no problem with it...horses for courses, as for parts wearing, I cannot answer that, some owners say the chain or tensioner hasn't been touched in 60 odd thousand miles  :187:     
    Paul Wilko

  • Offline pohm66

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    Offline pohm66

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    Re: cam chain noise.... perplexed
    Reply #6 on: Dec 19, 2019, 02.11 am
    Dec 19, 2019, 02.11 am
    Well the story continues.....

    Bit the bullet and took the bike into my local Triumph dealer/mechanic who now have informed me that the cam chain has a tight spot in it. To fix it needs new sliders as damaged but they also recommend replacing all 3 sprockets and doing cam adjustment etc. Approx Au$1900 and 6-8 weeks wait for parts.

    I have asked that they put in a formal request to Triumph Australia to see if they will come to the party on anything as motor only done 20,000 ks.

    Attached is an audio file for the record. Please ignore the gluggy sound in the background, it's a by product of converting a .wav file to. mpg
    Paul
    Currently 2014 Pacific Blue TTSE & 1994 Speed Triple
    Previous Trumpy's
       95 Speed Triple
       69 Trophy Custom in rigid frame (built not bought)

  • Offline pohm66

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    Offline pohm66

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    Re: cam chain noise.... perplexed
    Reply #7 on: Feb 16, 2020, 09.33 am
    Feb 16, 2020, 09.33 am
    Well after the Christmas shut down and a try to Triumph Australia to see if they'd come to the party with a contribution to replace a timing chain (had tight spots in it) and damaged sliders an drive sprockets to damage from timing chain. Arguement only 20,000k and serviced by Triumph dealer but to no avail.

    Parts ordered from UK and last week installed, basically 7 weeks without the bike.

    The upshot is the noises have been resolved..... Partially....

    I still have a rattle at 2,500 rpm be it with slightly less vibration... I have been told now that the noise is either a piston slap or from carbon build up on valve(s). I have been using 98 RON, highest octane, but not really getting above 4500rpm as most of my riding is commuting at highway speed.

    The mechanics has suggested a couple of tanks of 91 RON and some high rev riding to see if the rattle lessens. If it does then assumption is carbon build up... If not it's piston slap...

    Not a hint of these problems when I bought the bike 7000k s ago.
    Paul
    Currently 2014 Pacific Blue TTSE & 1994 Speed Triple
    Previous Trumpy's
       95 Speed Triple
       69 Trophy Custom in rigid frame (built not bought)