Triumph Trophy

Main Trophy Boards => Maintenance, Servicing, and Mechanical issues => Topic started by: Gr8Canadian on May 18, 2014, 03:33:19 PM

Title: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on May 18, 2014, 03:33:19 PM
After experiencing and having the dealer replace the ECU to fix the bike shutdown issue, my TT has now developed an annoying intermittent problem with slipping out of 2nd gear.
Doesn't do it under the same conditions every time, but usually happens when it's under load, (2 people and/or @ 7K RPM).
Has anybody else had, (having?), this experience?
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Verdun95 on May 18, 2014, 03:43:28 PM
never, so far  :187:
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: threeup on May 18, 2014, 04:05:01 PM
Worrying - not had that problem here
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Ernest T on May 18, 2014, 05:11:38 PM
I haven't. Does it go to 1st or neutral?
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on May 18, 2014, 07:10:48 PM
Hi Ernest,
It goes to neutral....

I should also mention that after it had happened to me a couple times, I've made sure my fingers were entirely off the clutch lever, (just in case it wasn't due to a clumsy shift)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: DonTom on May 18, 2014, 07:11:23 PM
*Originally Posted by Gr8Canadian [+]
After experiencing and having the dealer replace the ECU to fix the bike shutdown issue, my TT has now developed an annoying intermittent problem with slipping out of 2nd gear.
Doesn't do it under the same conditions every time, but usually happens when it's under load, (2 people and/or @ 7K RPM).
Has anybody else had, (having?), this experience?
Sounds more like a common problem with the 1983-85 Yamaha Ventures, caused by a cheap nylon bushing that wears too fast and the 2nd gear starts to not hold in gear  intermittently.  I hope the TTSE doesn't have the same problem! It's a very difficult thing to fix.  It took about 2.5 years to show up in some after this model came out. Just sounds so similar.

-Don-  SSF, CA
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on May 18, 2014, 07:43:05 PM
We'll I hope not, but funny you should mention that!
My last bike was a 1984 Venture, although the 2nd gear issue had been fixed long before I owned it.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: DonTom on May 18, 2014, 07:50:39 PM
*Originally Posted by Gr8Canadian [+]
We'll I hope not, but funny you should mention that!
My last bike was a 1984 Venture, although the 2nd gear issue had been fixed long before I owned it.
I've owned my 84 Venture since new, but so far, no trace of the 2nd gear problem

Whops . . .I seem to be in the wrong forum!

-Don-  SSF, CA
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Queensland Ken on May 18, 2014, 11:08:59 PM
Hope it's not the 2nd gear dog and shifter fork.

Was very common on Yamaha gearboxes , as mentioned.
I sold my XS11 30 years ago because of it, my last XS11 had the 2nd gear mod done.

I'd tell Triumph of the problem ASAP, register the problem with a dealer for warranty purposes.

I know of a handful of FJR's that have had the same problem, mostly Generation 1's.

(http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu4/fudgejerkin1188/mixedphotos386.jpg)

(http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu4/fudgejerkin1188/mixedphotos382.jpg)

(http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu4/fudgejerkin1188/mixedphotos388.jpg)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on May 19, 2014, 02:34:57 AM
Thanks Ken,
Still hoping it's something minor, but will definitely be talking to the dealer.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: w8d4it on May 19, 2014, 02:36:10 AM
Is it actually slipping into neutral or is it just indicating it is in the wrong gear (ie neutral)?  I ask because several Triumph models, including the Trophy, have a known problem with the shifting sensor.  There is a TSB on it but not a recall.  Mine was one of the unfortunate bikes affected.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on May 19, 2014, 02:11:38 PM
It's definitely popping out of gear, never below 6-7k RPM.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Papermaker on May 19, 2014, 05:42:59 PM
Gr8Canadian--

Although it might not be the problem what you are describing is a textbook case of bent shirt fork, rounded gear dogs and slot issue as Queensland Ken mentioned.  If it is a bent shift fork the condition will continue to deteriorate until the transmission will not stay in gear at any rpm or loads.  The question is what caused the shift fork to bend.  Did you ever fall on the left side of the bike or hit the shift lever hard?  Check the lever for damage.  If there is any damage Triumph may deny coverage.

Let us know what they say,

--John 
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on May 19, 2014, 11:50:34 PM
Hi John,
No, the bike has never been down, (and hope to keep it that way!), and I've never had the necessity to shift hard so I doubt the shift lever is bent, (but will double check).
We've had terrible weather so far this "spring", so I just got the bike back from the ECU repair last week.....will be going back to the dealer once again to get this problem looked at.
I will post any updates as soon as available.
Thanks to all
DB
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Papermaker on May 20, 2014, 12:05:33 AM
Gr8Canadian--

Thanks for the update.  I doubt that you can shift your bike hard enough to bend a shift fork.  What I mean is, if you pulled up on the shift lever with all of your strength I don't think it would bend, if you stomped down as hard as you can and the gear dogs and slots were out of alignment it may bent the lever, but it would almost have to be intentional on your part.  If you've never been down or whack the lever with, say a deer or dog then it didn't happen on your watch.  Is your shift lever pristine?  If it is it's Triumph's problem, be prepared for resistance.

--John
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: coneye on May 20, 2014, 01:02:49 AM
 I had that problem with  an old fj 1100 i owned , it was going to cost a fortune  so i scrapped it , Then i had the same with a vulcan 1500  ecact same problem , the vulcan had only done 20,000 klm , and  the dealer quoted me 3-4000 dollars to fix it , , but offered me 5000 dollars to trade it , so i traded it in , and then found out  later , that  that paticular model  had a recall issued  4 years earlier  to fix the problem caused by a faulty plastic thingybob in the gearbox .  and he had never notified me , , think he smacked my ass a bit  :008:.

Still like  its been said , DEFINETLY regstar your problem , in fact with it being  such an expensive problem , personaly i would be taking it back and DEMANDING they fix it , I think you may have a fight on your hands here , this is one problem Triumph are not going to want to acknoledge , and its a problem that will start showing up has these bikes get higher in mileage ,

If in fact it is a problem , hopefully its not and a simple fix.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: 1150newguy on May 20, 2014, 03:16:23 PM
Like many I have dealt with the dreaded second gear failure that was common on several Yamaha models for several years.   One other thing that has gave me a scare or two was possible transmission failure that turned out to be a binding or out of adjustment shifting linkage. If a bike you are riding develops gearbox issues and has a linkage check it out before getting too excited. My 1150 Beemer was very particular about adjustment and lubrication of the shift linkage. Not saying this is the solution to your problem, but may be worth checking.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: w8d4it on May 20, 2014, 04:23:56 PM
NavyDad you raise an interesting point. All Trophies were subject to a linkage adjustment TSB, which was supposed to be performed before delivery.  I wonder if this problem could be related.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on May 24, 2014, 04:24:41 AM
We'll, I've spoken with the dealer service mgr.
He's not aware of any TSB for a linkage adjustment and is not hopeful that would be the issue since it's only happening in 2nd gear.
Either way, it goes in on Monday for a thorough go over and will let everyone know the outcome then.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Coconut on May 24, 2014, 05:59:22 AM
Hi Gr8Canadian,

Appreciate you keeping us updated with this.

The TSB for adjusting the Gear shift pedal position was TSB 486
from March 2013, although I don't have any details of exactly what it says.

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/Forum-Main-Avatar.gif)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on May 28, 2014, 04:16:37 AM
Well, I don't have the final diagnosis, but I do have a commitment for further inspection.
The dealer was able to replicate the problem on a test ride, and had contacted Triumph who confirmed they have received "4-5 similar complaints" in recent months.
They have approval from Triumph to crack the case for a visual examination of the transmission to try and reveal the problem. It may be a similar issue as with the old Yamaha's, (which the dealer is very familiar with, as they are also a long time Yamaha dealer), but they want to make sure. It appears like they are still investigating the problem and haven't confirmed the cause to issue a service bulletin (or recall!!).
As of now, I'm taking it easy and not exceeding 5K rpm in 2nd gear...If it is a fork/gear issue then I can hold off until the fall and let them fix it over the winter.
Note that although I'm disappointed with an issue like this on a brand new bike, I'm also very happy with my dealer's reaction/response...and as of now, am also pleased with Triumph's attention to the problem.
Thanks to all for your input, I will post any developments after the inspection.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: w8d4it on May 28, 2014, 04:21:00 AM
I don't want to stir the pot but isn't Triumph going to give you a loaner for something this serious?
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: cropbiker on May 28, 2014, 11:50:49 AM
Hi gr8canadian... Thanks for the update and we look forward to hearing the results of the inspection.... As you say, annoying to have the fault, but s :172: t happens and the important thing is that the dealer and Triumph are taking you seriously and inspecting things! Hopefully, it won't turn into another recall for us all, but even if it does then we can feel pretty confident it will be handled effectively like the others!
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Papermaker on May 28, 2014, 12:19:54 PM
Great8Canadian--

It sounds like you are going to have the best outcome possible.

--John
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TonyZZR on June 25, 2014, 11:11:54 AM
Hi gr8canadian. I am a member of the Explorer Forum, just popped over here to see if anyone is experiencing the same issue with the gearbox as I am.

The problems you are having sound similar to mine and am interested to get more detail. My Explorer has a problem where, when I change down from 3rd to 2nd it often slips straight into neutral, not every time but enough to happen a few times every ride and is very irritating. Sometime it goes into 2nd momentarily and then it drops into neutral. Its not a false neutral, the light comes on and I have to shift up to get back into second.

My dealer has had my bike now for 15 days and so far all they have done is get a mechanic and one of the sales guys to ride it and claim that there is nothing wrong with it. As you can imagine, I am getting a bit impatient with them now.

Did Triumph resolve your problem? Do you know what they did?

I hope you are having more luck with the problem than I am.

Tony.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on June 26, 2014, 05:28:46 AM
Hello Tony ZZR, and all others watching these posts.
Sorry for the long delay in providing an update, but it's taken a while to get some solid info and I will try to keep this brief, before I go into my rant.
ZZR, this may answer your question, and it will also answer some of the speculation, since the problem has appeared to be confirmed as being similar to the mid 80's Yamaha's, with the shift fork not properly engaging the gear and the dogs chipping or wearing out. As far as I know, there are no changes/improvements to the parts and no recall planned.
That pretty much summarizes the mechanical issue, now here is my issue.
Normally, you would think I would be happy with the diagnosis and fix, however the dealer has had my TT for 10 days now...with at least another week of waiting !!
This is partially my fault since when they had the bike for the "inspection" they told me they would be able to remove the transmission w/o removing the motor "and get it back together within a week", so if they had it apart for inspection then they may as well fix it at that time.
Bad choice in the short Canadian riding season, as they're still waiting for parts from Triumph.
I don't have an issue with the dealer, however I gotta say I've been stewing over this for the last month, and I do have a problem with Triumph.....I love(d?) the Triumph brand, and I love riding this bike, but C'mon!! I dropped a lot of money on this bike and chose the TT over an RT, and it is letting me down.

I've only had the bike one year....The forks needed replacement?, then a gas tank replacement?, an ECU replacement? (which left me stranded twice), and now basically a rebuilt transmission?, (well, partially at least!), never mind the throttle control issue which doesn't seem to get fixed for long....with never any offer of a loaner.
It's a beautiful bike, sweet looking, fast, and comfortable....but all of that is trumped by poor reliability.
I may think differently when I finally get to ride it again, but right now? Quite frankly, I'm sadly considering my other ownership options before the factory warranty is up.


Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TonyZZR on June 26, 2014, 08:14:45 AM
Bad news Gr8 - I was hoping the fix would be something simple.. I hope they sort it for you. Out of interest, did the dealer actually experience the problem on a test ride? My dealer refuses to even take the clutch cover off without experiencing the problem first hand, they told me yesterday that if they stripped the box and found nothing wrong that I would get the bill  :005: I am now seriously considering cutting my losses and trading the TEX.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on June 26, 2014, 01:15:59 PM
Hi Tony,

I think they initially thought I was fumbling the clutch, but yes the dealer had no issues with taking the bike on a test ride, and had experienced the same issue. I can't imagine a dealer not taking it out for a test ride, (or two!), to ensure there isn't a problem. Hope it works out for you.

Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: malcolm on June 26, 2014, 01:20:55 PM
I have had a couple of occasions changing up from first to second and ended up in neutral I assumed it was me who hadn't been positive enough, there is quit a gap between first and second
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TonyZZR on June 26, 2014, 01:39:51 PM
*Originally Posted by malcolm [+]
I have had a couple of occasions changing up from first to second and ended up in neutral I assumed it was me who hadn't been positive enough, there is quit a gap between first and second

I think everyone's done that!! I would accept it as my fault if the bike went into neutral when attempting a change from second to first or vice-versa or if I found a false neutral between gears but skipping a whole gear is the issue here.

They loaned me a Tiger 800 last night, better than nothing but not my choice of first bike, it fells gutless after the magnificent 12 triple!
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Saaz on June 26, 2014, 02:11:48 PM
Interesting comment about first to second having a gap, as I think it is relatively seemless compared to an ST1100 Honda - first gear on it is like a truck and you never want to go near it on the road!. While I initially thought that 6 gears was unnecessary, I always seem to be using the next gear down quite  alot.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Lieu57 on August 31, 2014, 04:07:34 PM
Watching this thread with interest. I've had zero issues with my '14 until about 6k miles. Now I'm also experiencing the same first to second problems.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Gr8Canadian on September 02, 2014, 03:32:47 AM
My apologies as I've not been prompt in submitting a final post on this subject, so here it is.
The bike was finally fixed....after 7.5 weeks of mostly waiting for parts to come from Triumph.
After week five, I had a conversation with a customer service mgr @ Triumph N.A. who thought he was doing me a favour by "rushing" the part, and had also promised to "look after me"....
A couple of follow up calls to Triumph has not produced any response, and I'm the customer so not my responsibility to chase them. Good luck selling me, or anybody I know another Triumph
Summary?
Dealer good, Manufacturer bad....on a positive note? Darn it all - I still love the bike!!!
(plus now it shifts better than new !!)

Anyway, I'm off riding until the snow flies, (or I decide to trade it in on something more reliable)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Coconut on September 02, 2014, 09:26:55 AM
Thanks for the update Gr8Canadian  :028:

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/Forum-Main-Avatar.gif)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: barab63 on August 20, 2016, 02:45:29 PM
To GR8 Canadian, et al:  During a recent long trip on my 15 Trophy SE, I started experiencing the same issue; i.e., when trying to shift fr 3 to 2 the gearbox often goes directly into Neutral, bypassing 2.  A Triumph dealer has confirmed the issue with a test ride and has ordered a "detent spring"  as a fix.  The work hasn't been done yet. 

GR8, can you tell me what they did to correct your shifting probem?
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: MO Man on August 25, 2016, 05:02:11 AM
2nd gear shift fork is bad. Hope it is still within warranty.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: phaedrus on January 25, 2017, 08:36:06 PM
Thank you for this thread. My bike ('15 w/ 6k miles) now slips from 2nd to neutral under any decent load.

Dropped her off today at the dealer who immediately replicated the issue. Hoping for a one time fix.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: phaedrus on February 04, 2017, 03:17:39 AM
Not going to get the bike back until 17 Feb. Transmission grenaded itself.

Bummed my local dealers don't offer loaner bikes and Hinckley doesn't stock enough parts here in the states.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: AZBob on February 06, 2017, 04:30:17 PM
*Originally Posted by phaedrus [+]
Not going to get the bike back until 17 Feb. Transmission grenaded itself.

Bummed my local dealers don't offer loaner bikes and Hinckley doesn't stock enough parts here in the states.

Yeesh. I'll be waiting until it gets hot to have mine looked at.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: phaedrus on February 20, 2017, 08:31:45 PM
Got the bike back and the dealer replaced the shifter assembly along with 2nd, 3rd, and 6th gears. Transmission feels much tighter going from first to second now. Even brand new, that shift always felt sloppy and would end up many times in N vice 2nd.

I rented an Indian Springfield whilst in Vegas for a jaunt through Valley of Fire, Lake Mead, and Hoover Dan. Good machine but I missed my Trophy!
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Michel1960 on February 20, 2017, 09:28:04 PM
1. Owned a 84 Venture Royale and ran it for 275,000 km without any transmission problems

2. 7,000-8,000 RPM in second gear while slowing down, are you Racing the bike ??
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: paddington on May 16, 2017, 02:37:13 PM
bought a used trophy se 2014 model. picked it up 2 days ago. gearbox seemed a bit clunky,  thing is sometimes from 3rd gear trying to change down goes into neutral bypassing 2nd. after a long run on the motorway was a little smoother but still skips 2nd from third into neutral sometimes. any info and thoughts appreciated. it hasn't slipped out of 2nd or any other gear. thoughts please.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Coconut on May 16, 2017, 03:45:54 PM
... thoughts please ...

My thoughts are that this sounds exactly like the problem the OP ( Gr8Canadian ),
and others have had, where there is a problem with the Gear Selector Fork(s).

As you've only had the bike for a 2 days, I would think your recourse lies with the Seller.

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/Forum-Main-Avatar.gif)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: paddington on May 16, 2017, 04:32:12 PM
thanks coconut, sending an e mail to them pronto :013:
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Vansflyer on May 16, 2017, 07:09:26 PM
A known issue, not common but it does happen.
Maybe needs..
A Detent Wheel PN 1191235
Shaft Ass PN1194444
Pivot Plate 119120

Parts are pretty cheap but labour may cost a few hours.
Good luck  :002:
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: paddington on May 16, 2017, 09:06:36 PM
many thanks for the part numbers, taking it in tomorrow,, will see what they have to say
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Elrod on May 17, 2017, 04:52:02 PM
Having the same issue with my new-to-me 2013.  Accelerating through 2nd gear, it pops out of gear to neutral at high RPM.  My bike is NOT under warranty, so fixes will likely be on my dime.  Was looking through Ebay and noticed whole TTSE used trannies at <$500.  Might be the cheapest way out.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: paddington on May 17, 2017, 05:35:33 PM
my 2014 does not slip out of 2nd, but occaisionally when changing down from 3rd to second, usually at lower speed and revs, it goes into neutral.
took her into the dealers today, they are going to take a look sometime in the next week, luckily I am still in whats left of the original 4 year guarantee.


 
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: OhioWinger on June 07, 2017, 07:58:38 PM
*Originally Posted by paddington [+]
my 2014 does not slip out of 2nd, but occaisionally when changing down from 3rd to second, usually at lower speed and revs, it goes into neutral.
took her into the dealers today, they are going to take a look sometime in the next week, luckily I am still in whats left of the original 4 year guarantee.


 

I had the same issue, changing the gear selector mechanism fixed it.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TrophyTed on June 10, 2017, 04:16:58 AM
*Originally Posted by OhioWinger [+]
I had the same issue, changing the gear selector mechanism fixed it.

Did you fix it yourself or take it to a dealer? What parts need to be replaced or fixed? I have felt the same issue with my 2015 SE. It went to neutral from third when slowing down, clutch in once or twice. I have issues with going from second to first at low speed (coming up to a red light) where it sticks in neutral.

I'm hesitant to take it to a dealer. They will most likely say there is nothing wrong...
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Coconut on June 10, 2017, 08:19:32 AM
I'm hesitant to take it to a dealer. They will most likely say there is nothing wrong...

Sounds like you have had previous bad experiences with "a" Dealer ?

This is something that is not likely to fix itself, and will probably just get worse.

Your 2015 trophy may still be under Warranty,
but even if not you should be able to argue a good case for Triumph
to put this problem right at no cost to you, assuming you have the same issue
of bent / damaged gear selector forks, which Triumph have seen in other Trophys.

Cheers  :821:

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/Forum-Main-Avatar.gif)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TrophyTed on June 10, 2017, 01:27:27 PM
*Originally Posted by Coconut [+]
Your 2015 trophy may still be under Warranty...

It is a 2 year warranty that starts when you buy the bike? If so, I should be in my second year. I bought this bike in 2016.

I'll try a different dealer in this case. Hopefully they will look at it. Some dealers near me won't look at it if you didn't buy from them. I've posted about it before but there is no dealer within 100 miles of me that present themselves competently.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Coconut on June 10, 2017, 02:00:30 PM
From the Triumph web site :

All new Triumph motorcycles are covered by a 24 month unlimited mileage warranty,
commencing from the date of first registration or the date of sale if the motorcycle remains unregistered.

If you bought your "2015 Trophy" in 2016, and it had not previously been registered,
then you are definitely covered, otherwise it's 2 years warranty from whenever it was first registered.

i.e the 2 year warranty would still be valid if it was registered before today's date in 2015.

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Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: OhioWinger on June 10, 2017, 02:18:04 PM
*Originally Posted by TrophyTed [+]
It is a 2 year warranty that starts when you buy the bike? If so, I should be in my second year. I bought this bike in 2016.

I'll try a different dealer in this case. Hopefully they will look at it. Some dealers near me won't look at it if you didn't buy from them. I've posted about it before but there is no dealer within 100 miles of me that present themselves competently.

I am in warranty and did not want to drive over 2 hours to a dealer, so I did the job myself. 5k miles since the repair and no issues. It was easier than I thought it would be. I did find one error in OEM repair manual, other than that it was very easy to follow.

Gear change shaft assembly T1194444
Pivot plate.                          T1191200
Detent spring.                      T1195432
Detent arm.                          T1192122
Circlip.                                  T3502535
Cover gasket.                  T1181294  Not 100% sure, parts fiche is a bit unclear on this.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: OhioWinger on June 10, 2017, 02:28:18 PM
If you decide to do this yourself be careful,, you will want to keep pressure on the shaft while removing the cover. If not both will come off together.(thats what happened to me) I was very luck the washer on the end of the shaft stayed in place and did not fall.
That washer can fall into the oil pan if you are not careful.

I already had the plastic off the bike and it took less than one hour to change out.
I carefully removed/replaced parts from the old one to the new making sure they were assembled the same way.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: OhioWinger on June 10, 2017, 03:56:42 PM
*Originally Posted by OhioWinger [+]
I am in warranty and did not want to drive over 2 hours to a dealer, so I did the job myself. 5k miles since the repair and no issues. It was easier than I thought it would be. I did find one error in OEM repair manual, other than that it was very easy to follow.

Gear change shaft assembly T1194444
Pivot plate.                          T1191200
Detent spring.                      T1195432
Detent arm.                          T1192122
Circlip.                                  T3502535
Cover gasket.                  T1181294  Not 100% sure, parts fiche is a bit unclear on this.

Going through old invoices the correct part number for the cover gasket is T1261426
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Duck Tape on June 11, 2017, 04:18:47 PM
Given that the slipping from 2nd gear has happened to quite a few bikes, and has been getting repaired over the course of the past couple of years, is there a consensus of what the actual problem is caused by, and what needs to be replaced to effect a long-term cure?  Is there a specific part that is the 'smoking-gun' that is the root problem?

My bike was repaired under warranty by the dealer changing out the damaged output-shaft gears for 2nd and 6th speeds, but the root problem was never diagnosed so the issue of slipping out of 2nd has returned less than 5,000 km later.  Is it the gear selector assembly, the detent wheel, or the selector forks, or what?  Or are we all having more or less the same 2nd gear problem but it is due to different causes?  Does slipping out of 2nd gear due to whatever root cause (for instance a problem with the gear selector assembly) then result in damage to the selector forks?

Just to be clear, in keeping with the OP's original topic, I am asking about the problem of slipping out of 2nd gear when under load and at high rpm, not the problems other guys have had with hitting neutral when shifting down from 3rd to 2nd.

Looking forward to learning from any owners that had their repair work done by a dealer that took the time to diagnose the problem and share with the owner what they learned, or from owners that did the work themselves that have enough experience with motorcycle repair to be able to understand and fix the problem, and where the transmission repair has subsequently stood the test of time.

Thanks in advance,

Mark
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TrickyWoo56 on November 19, 2017, 05:39:17 PM
Had my bike 2 days

It’s does this exact thing...under load, second gear, ker...lunk at 6k rpm

Grrrr
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: swannie007 on November 19, 2017, 10:59:08 PM
My bike has recently started slipping out of second gear as well but only on shifting down and slowing for a stop. Has done it a couple of times and it is quite disconcerting when you expect some deceleration from compression braking and there is none!! I mentioned it to my dealer as my bike had the 20k service done recently(ouch-my are still hurts!!) and the tech working on my bike was able to reproduce the problem. Also, the shifting is becoming harder and harder as the miles pile on, especially going from fifth to sixth gear. Anyway, the dealer pulled the transmission out and could see no visible signs of damage so Triumph told them to put it back into the bike as is!! Also, they wanted me to pay for the labour to pull the transmission out and put it back in!! I was able to work out a compromise with my dealer(they are a great dealer)(I didn't pay for that labour) so I still have a sh#tty transmission as Triumph USA refused my claim of a faulty transmission. I am 62 years old and have been riding motorcycles since I was 15 years old so I have owned and ridden many motorcycles over the years and this is the first bike I have ever had a transmission problem with. By the way, the transmission was as smooth as butter when I first got the bike and I am very gentle with the transmission and it has just progressively gotten worse. This will be the last Triumph motorcycle I ever buy and I certainly will not recommend them to anyone else due to the poor response from Triumph USA. Cheers. 
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: AZBob on November 20, 2017, 03:33:56 PM
*Originally Posted by swannie007 [+]
My bike has recently started slipping out of second gear as well but only on shifting down and slowing for a stop. Has done it a couple of times and it is quite disconcerting when you expect some deceleration from compression braking and there is none!! I mentioned it to my dealer as my bike had the 20k service done recently(ouch-my are still hurts!!) and the tech working on my bike was able to reproduce the problem. Also, the shifting is becoming harder and harder as the miles pile on, especially going from fifth to sixth gear. Anyway, the dealer pulled the transmission out and could see no visible signs of damage so Triumph told them to put it back into the bike as is!! Also, they wanted me to pay for the labour to pull the transmission out and put it back in!! I was able to work out a compromise with my dealer(they are a great dealer)(I didn't pay for that labour) so I still have a sh#tty transmission as Triumph USA refused my claim of a faulty transmission. I am 62 years old and have been riding motorcycles since I was 15 years old so I have owned and ridden many motorcycles over the years and this is the first bike I have ever had a transmission problem with. By the way, the transmission was as smooth as butter when I first got the bike and I am very gentle with the transmission and it has just progressively gotten worse. This will be the last Triumph motorcycle I ever buy and I certainly will not recommend them to anyone else due to the poor response from Triumph USA. Cheers.

Odd. I had mine repaired in September. It had been doing it a while and simply wouldn't shift into 2nd from 3rd any more (skipping to neutral), so it was easy to replicate. The service writer immediately found a campaign related to the transmission and they pulled it in for warranty service. The shifter forks for 2nd gear were replaced along with the cogs for 2nd and the two gears the dogs on 2nd mesh with. Cost to me: $0.

Unfortunately, it's doing it again after only 5,000 miles. I will be demanding an entirely new transmission as it's much worse this time: besides intermittently going to neutral from 3rd on a downshift, it has slipped from 3rd to 2nd twice now, which is pucker factor 9 when you're already doing 65mph and trying to get off the highway. It is a shame because I purchased the Triumph over the BMW competitors because of the smooth transmission, and it's the only thing giving me problems on the bike. However, based on my previous experience, I expect Triumph to do the proper thing to repair the bike.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TrickyWoo56 on November 20, 2017, 04:45:14 PM
Hi,

Please could you give an idea how much it would’ve cost?

Thank you 😊
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Coconut on November 20, 2017, 07:50:28 PM
AZBob,

When you make contact with your Dealer, could you ask if they will provide
the Reference Number for the campaign you mentioned about this Gearbox issue ?

It may come in very useful for other Members that are faced with the same predicament !

Cheers  :821:

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/Forum-Main-Avatar.gif)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TrickyWoo56 on November 21, 2017, 12:23:28 PM
I contacted the previous owner (the dealer had left his email address in the manual) and, wonderfully, he replied with details:

'I had to have the gear box fixed when part of it got worn and jumped at about 2500 rpm.. It did make an almighty bang at exactly the same rpm very time. The main dealer fixed it, and all the work was done under warranty. The photos from the original gearbox that the dealer took when they stripped it down are attached. The top one shows the wear more clearly, in the centre underneath the black teeth. This was where the gear selector was jumping.

That was in Jan 2015, and once the work had been done I never had another problem with her. I put it down to a one off parts failure.

The dealer said they’d never seen anything like it before and were very good about doing the work.'


Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Ulrich on November 29, 2017, 06:02:49 PM
Good day Trophy friends, seemingly we are having the same problem. I bought my first Trophy in 2014, this was also the first Trophy that landed in South Africa, it was used in all the biker magazines and I then thereafter bought it as a demo from my local Triumph dealer. At about 34,000km my gearbox started slipping and not long after I had total gearbox failure. The gearbox was replaced under warranty, I drove the bike till 57,000km with no further problems and sold it.
I then bought my second Trophy in 2016 and heaven be hold on 32,000km my gearbox started slipping in 2 and 3, again gearbox repaired under warranty, the workshop manager then contacted me, and informed me that whilst driving the bike on the final inspection drive, he heard my altenator bearing was packing up, so after waiting for the gearbox parts for 1 and a 1/2 months, I will again be waiting for altenator parts here in South Africa. I really love my Trophy, BUT the high mileage problems seems to be ongoing!!
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TrickyWoo56 on November 29, 2017, 08:07:39 PM
Hey Ulrich!

I’ve had the quote today to fix the 2nd gear issue by Triumph - £840! And they already fixed the same problem 2 years ago.

Am considering options

Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Vansflyer on November 29, 2017, 08:55:17 PM
Sorry to hear of the issues. Please get a breakdown of costs and speak directly to Triumph. Issues are known but not common, I am sure you can get it settled for sensible money.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Ulrich on November 29, 2017, 11:37:53 PM
I have been "luck" so far, all repairs have been done under warranty, as the bike is still under warranty. On the first bike (2014), I was told that a recall was done due to this problem, (I never got notification on this though), up and until the gearbox failed. The reason for the recall was apparently that the gearbox was made from a too "hard" metal, thus it "chips" away, the newer boxes were apparently made of a different "softer" metal that could not chip away. On the 2016 though I was told that this was the upgraded "softer" metal boxes, as I specifically asked due to my past experience, but obviously when it broke again, I was informed that I might have still received a "old" box installed in my new bike. I am now again told that the new box have been installed with the "soft" metal gear that does not chip away, not sure what to believe any more, but obviously it is becoming a concern, as my warranty will run out next year March, any failures thereafter will have massive financial cost to me.   
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: nervouswreck on November 30, 2017, 11:47:13 AM
Ulrich, I don't know this to be an absolute fact, but when I had the head assembly replaced on my 2013 I was told that the warranty on the head would begin again at the time of replacement..  So if true your tranny should have two years unlimited mileage.  Coconut where are you for an accurate answer?
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Ulrich on November 30, 2017, 03:03:54 PM
Hi gents, well I hope that to be the case, you now make me think now, I had a heated grip issue with my first Trophy, it got replaced under warranty, and as per your comment made, I was told that a new 2 year warranty was given on the parts, so might be the case on the new gearbox, i'll make sure that I keep all documentation on the repair and new parts for any potential future issues again, but lets hope this will not be the case.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Coconut on November 30, 2017, 04:55:15 PM
I don't know for sure either !

If you read the Warranty Terms & Conditions
they state that if a part is replaced or repaired
then the remainder of the warranty applies to the replaced part,
but I "believe" that if you have had to pay the a repair
then such parts come with a fresh two year warranty.

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/Forum-Main-Avatar.gif)


Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: AZBob on December 16, 2017, 05:54:22 PM
*Originally Posted by TrickyWoo56 [+]
Hi,

Please could you give an idea how much it would’ve cost?

Thank you 😊

I have no idea as all the amounts are zeroed out because it was under warranty. However, there was a litany of parts replaced. To no avail, apparently.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: SprintST1050 on December 16, 2017, 06:36:28 PM
No problem with the Trophy slipping out of any gear but this is a current intermittent issue with my '08 Sprint and was an issue with my '01 Sprint - was told 'they all do it'?!?!  My issue with the Trophy is 'missed shifts' only when I'm wearing my size 11 (US) riding boots (size 9 previously) due to medical issues.  No 'missed shifts' when wearing sandals LOL!!!  Doc stated I shouldn't be riding but she won't report me to the DMV to have my motorcycle endorsement revoked (yet!?!?).
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Coconut on December 17, 2017, 01:11:31 PM
There is a limited amount of adjustment in the Gear Shift Pedal position,
but if "too much" adjustment is done, for example to accommodate larger boots etc,
then part of the pedal will hit a bolt head on the side engine casing
when shifting up through the gears.  :012:

Consequently the full movement of the selector fork may not be achieved,
and gear changes may be missed.

Worth checking to make sure the shift pedal does not hit that unintentional bolt head stop !

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/Coconut_Santa.jpg)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: rpeters549 on December 31, 2017, 05:51:01 AM
Odd. Never experienced this.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TrickyWoo56 on January 02, 2018, 01:05:55 PM
Hi folks,

I can get my lovely blue SE back this week as the dealer had to wait 4 weeks for a 6th gear (apparently when replacing 2 it also needs 6). No selector fork replacement though. Hopefully...even though it happened at 5000 and 14000 miles it's now fixed.

I just need to decide whether to wait on the dealer getting a slot at Triumph to fix / reactivate the TPWS but I'm in two minds whether to bother with that)

Thanks.

Richard
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Vansflyer on January 02, 2018, 09:29:36 PM
Hmmmmmm 6th gear change is a new one on me. Tbh That has nowt to do with the 3rd to N problem.
Tpms is worth it, get them to sort it.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Duck Tape on January 02, 2018, 10:37:11 PM
When I had to have the 2nd gear pop-out problem fixed a second time the Triumph mechanic showed me the worn parts and what he was replacing.  The selector forks to engage 2nd gear were worn and the forks were visibly bent back, as if 2nd gear had been pressing laterally against the selector forks.  Maybe the gear dogs for 2nd gear are slightly over-cut, resulting in the lateral force that causes 2nd to wear on the selector forks and to eventually start popping out. 
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: TrickyWoo56 on January 03, 2018, 08:03:40 AM
Hi Duck Tape,

Very interesting!

My 2nd gear went at 5,000 and 14,000 and I only have a 3 month warranty on the bike so...I'm definitely concerned that they're not replacing the fork/s.

I do large miles with heavy luggage weekly so if the problem recurs I'll get a refund in full.

Love the bike though :-)

(And I'll get them to sort the TPWS too)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Vansflyer on January 03, 2018, 06:54:06 PM
*Originally Posted by Vansflyer [+]
A known issue, not common but it does happen.
Maybe needs..
A Detent Wheel PN 1191235
Shaft Ass PN1194444
Pivot Plate 119120

Parts are pretty cheap but labour may cost a few hours.
Good luck  :002:
As previously listed, these are the parts that normally need changing. Maybe worth checking with the dealer what he did? Once fixed it should be a fix forever, mine has been perfect since it was done.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Duck Tape on January 03, 2018, 09:35:02 PM
Vansflyer - are the replacement parts you reference to fix the problem with slipping out of 2nd gear, or the problem that people have had with going from 3rd to neutral?
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Vansflyer on January 04, 2018, 06:35:08 AM
3rd to neutral in my case but it is also linked to slipping out of 2nd.
Cheers
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: AZBob on January 12, 2018, 06:13:17 PM
*Originally Posted by Duck Tape [+]
Vansflyer - are the replacement parts you reference to fix the problem with slipping out of 2nd gear, or the problem that people have had with going from 3rd to neutral?

3->N and slipping out of second are the same problem, AFAIK. If you have one, you'll eventually have the other. I know I did. The 3->N is more prominent, but once you have it, you'll also start slipping out of second because the selector fork isn't fully seating the dogs for second to engage with its mated gear (which is apparently 6th).

They changed a boat load of stuff in my transmission, but I'll have to take a look at the order to see if the three parts mentioned were changed. With the giant parts list I remember looking at, I can't see how they didn't, but anything is possible.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: LarryJa on September 19, 2019, 09:54:48 PM
Mine, once recently, skipped out of 2nd under high load.
So, I'm wondering if anyone has done this repair in their own workshop. If so, how difficult/complex to complete?
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Flux_Capctr on October 18, 2019, 01:34:09 PM
My trophy is actually in the shop, as it has been for the last month,  because of this very issue. I haven't been told about a damaged shift fork but the dogs are worn on second gear. This slight chamfered edge would cause the gear to slip under any real load. I'll let my dealer know about this as they claim they have never seen this issue before. At least not on a Triumph...
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: gfxmonkey on October 19, 2019, 12:55:53 PM
Just picked up on this topic, mine 2013 slips out of second when revving up to change up to 3rd, only does it in 2nd. Mines got 64,000 miles on it now so wondering if it needs a rebuild?

Glen
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on December 01, 2019, 08:16:04 PM
Just a couple of weeks ago experienced this on my 2014 with 25k miles.  Slipping out of second into neutral at high rpms.  I'll talk to the dealer this week but I may just order the parts listed by Vansflyer and give that a try.  Talking $200 and a couple of hours over likely $2000 with the dealer.

Anyone else been getting this fixed recently.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: earthman on December 02, 2019, 11:56:27 AM
*Originally Posted by Dan66 [+]
Just a couple of weeks ago experienced this on my 2014 with 25k miles.  Slipping out of second into neutral at high rpms.  I'll talk to the dealer this week but I may just order the parts listed by Vansflyer and give that a try.  Talking $200 and a couple of hours over likely $2000 with the dealer.

Anyone else been getting this fixed recently.

Out of interest, how many revs are you talking?
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on December 02, 2019, 01:19:09 PM
I haven't been watching but it is high, typically when I am running through the gears, at least 6000
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: earthman on December 02, 2019, 08:24:27 PM
*Originally Posted by Dan66 [+]
I haven't been watching but it is high, typically when I am running through the gears, at least 6000

Do you normally rev that high in 2nd gear then?

Not being funny but I rarely ever see the need to rev a motorcycle engine of this size/power to that extent, why/what are you trying to beat off the line??

If the other Trophy owners who are experience this gearbox problem have been riding their bike the same way, maybe that's a clue. :187:
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on December 02, 2019, 08:41:52 PM
Good questions but to some degree how I ride I don't think is the issue.  Multiple people have reported the issue when revving past 5500.  I run 4000 rpm at 80 in 6th gear so I don't think running higher RPM's is the problem and if it was then Triumph should have lowered the redline.  When I am on the twisties in Arkansas I am frequently in 2/3/4 at 4-5000 rpm to stay in the power.  We also know that the problem gets worse to the point the bike won't stay in 2nd gear, don't want to get there.

Now, that said, two of the instances were running up a freeway on-ramp where I was going from 2nd gear and merging at 75+ mph.  2nd provides good acceleration.

The slipping out of second gear issue is widely reported on a bunch of Triumph forums so this is not specific to the trophy and certainly no-one is racing a 1050 Tiger.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: earthman on December 02, 2019, 10:03:59 PM
*Originally Posted by Dan66 [+]
Good questions but to some degree how I ride I don't think is the issue.  Multiple people have reported the issue when revving past 5500.  I run 4000 rpm at 80 in 6th gear so I don't think running higher RPM's is the problem and if it was then Triumph should have lowered the redline.  When I am on the twisties in Arkansas I am frequently in 2/3/4 at 4-5000 rpm to stay in the power.  We also know that the problem gets worse to the point the bike won't stay in 2nd gear, don't want to get there.

Now, that said, two of the instances were running up a freeway on-ramp where I was going from 2nd gear and merging at 75+ mph.  2nd provides good acceleration.

The slipping out of second gear issue is widely reported on a bunch of Triumph forums so this is not specific to the trophy and certainly no-one is racing a 1050 Tiger.

How can you be so sure that no one is racing a 1050 Tiger? I would have said the same about a Trophy owner but compared to me, I'd say that you are. :001:

I've always had 'mechanical sympathy' in the front of my mind when it comes to running any vehicle really, I'm probably in the minority I know,.......it would be nice to hear from others though, have you suffered this gearbox problem despite taking it easy?? :002:
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: HACKLE on December 02, 2019, 10:44:28 PM
Earthman, I'm with you on the sympathy side of things. No I haven't, and don't want to, have the slipping out of 2nd. gear issue. But I definitely see "NO" reason to rev the engine that hard. The Trophy has more than enough power whilst changing up using the torque curve. Cheers.  :028: :028:
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on December 03, 2019, 12:42:12 AM
Can we get back on topic instead of you deriding my style of riding.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: earthman on December 03, 2019, 07:32:53 AM
*Originally Posted by Dan66 [+]
Can we get back on topic instead of you deriding my style of riding.

Sorry but it could be an important factor here,...does this problem only occur on bikes that have been hammered shall we say.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: LarryJa on December 03, 2019, 04:38:35 PM
My bike has slipped out of 2nd about 4-5 times over this last year that I've owned the bike. It happens at 5-7k rpm at 3/4, or better, throttle.
So, if I'm in a "hurry" I "short shift" through 2nd, so it holds.
Eventually, I will tear it down & repair.
So, this thread is guiding me on what the correct, but not overkill, repair pieces are, & how complex the disassembly & reassembly is.
What I'm seeing is that the root causes & true repairs are being refined as more of us experience this issue.
So, I'll "stay tuned", for now..
(but, eventually, I'll be wrenching this away)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on December 03, 2019, 11:09:59 PM
I see that nobody has mentioned anything about it, gearbox of 2012, there is an axis that goes inside a bearing, with the ambient temperature, plus the temperature produced in the gearbox, there is an expansion of the aluminum and the result It is as follows: Said bearing moves a few millimeters from its housing, moving the entire primary axis, which means that the sprockets do not reach the end of their travel, and the forks can even be bent due to the effort caused. For the bearing that I mention, the manufacturer added a very small sheet and is fastened by a screw. When this happens or begins to happen, if I remember correctly, the pinion of the sixth gear rubs on that spire and leaves its mark marked.

I see that there are several that have happened to you this are from the United States. I don't know if something will have to do with the temperature they have there.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: paddington on December 04, 2019, 10:20:56 AM
has anyone done this fix themselves, if so how difficult was it to achieve :187:
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on December 04, 2019, 04:22:01 PM
And how successful has it been.

Or do we need to do a complete tear-down and replacement of the shifting forks.

I'm fine doing the referenced work if it lasts another 25k; it doesn't require removal of the transmission..
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on December 04, 2019, 09:47:27 PM
For my work I need the bike every day.

I couldn't be without a motorcycle to work with her, since the motorcycle is my number one tool.

So I found a complete Tiger Explorer engine, except the cylinder head.

Then I bought it for € 450. Once I had it in my possession, I bought the gearbox seal and what was necessary to replace that Explorer's gearbox with my Trophy.

When I had everything ready on a weekend I changed the entire gearbox and so on Monday I could go to work with the bike and with the Tiger Explorer gearbox.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on December 04, 2019, 10:08:05 PM
This was the engine that I mention and bought for € 450.

From there I took out the gearbox.

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20180623_190106_HHT.jpg)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: earthman on December 04, 2019, 10:24:56 PM
*Originally Posted by digital [+]
For my work I need the bike every day.

I couldn't be without a motorcycle to work with her, since the motorcycle is my number one tool.

So I found a complete Tiger Explorer engine, except the cylinder head.

Then I bought it for € 450. Once I had it in my possession, I bought the gearbox seal and what was necessary to replace that Explorer's gearbox with my Trophy.

When I had everything ready on a weekend I changed the entire gearbox and so on Monday I could go to work with the bike and with the Tiger Explorer gearbox.

That must have been a fun weekend for you,....well done for getting the bike back on the road so quickly.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on December 04, 2019, 10:25:17 PM
Here I show some of the photos I took when I had time to open the damaged gearbox. My son (mechanical) and I began to analyze what happens to the Trophy gearboxes and we could see what I published last night in this post.

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20171214_205227875.jpg)

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20171214_202321442.jpg)

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20171214_201819431.jpg)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on December 04, 2019, 10:34:52 PM
(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20180718_200035.jpg)

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20180718_195030.jpg)

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20180718_195048.jpg)

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20180114_133019339.jpg)

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20180718_195015.jpg)

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20180718_195101.jpg)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on December 04, 2019, 10:52:15 PM
Once we disassemble engine.

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20171208_140645962ad76727c4d3a21e4.jpg)

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20181111_143653.jpg)

Here again everything mounted.
(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20181111_133959.jpg)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on December 04, 2019, 11:13:08 PM
*Originally Posted by earthman [+]
That must have been a fun weekend for you,....well done for getting the bike back on the road so quickly.

Of course it was.
Rare is that I don't have fun every weekend doing things or installing something new on the bike.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on December 04, 2019, 11:36:08 PM
Once the motor was mounted on the motorcycle, I painted it blue, it was formerly lunar silver and I got tired of seeing it always the same color.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: paddington on December 05, 2019, 09:04:47 AM
digital
well done, very impressive looks like too much for my level of knowledge, so, I will let mr triumph sort mine out after xmas.  :017:
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: cecilt on December 05, 2019, 09:31:15 AM
Fascinating and congratulations! We have an electronic and mechanical wizard on the Forum!
After finding what caused the defective Trophy gearbox, would it be an easy repair? Or would you advise that we find a replacement gearbox, as you have done. Is the Tiger gearbox an improvement on the Trophy's? (Not that I would ever attempt such a project - and I have three sons! But it would be useful to know IF this ever becomes a very costly problem...)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on December 05, 2019, 04:24:02 PM
Thank you all for being here daily.

Very good company!

My recommendation is as follows:

For what the second-hand gearboxes cost. The ideal is to buy one and is to take out the damaged one and mount the other.

It is difficult to find Trophy gearboxes. So it is better to search
of Tiger Explorer that are well.

Keep in mind that most of the gearboxes that sell online are extracted from engines that have suffered another type of serious breakdown, not by the gearbox.

What I usually do before buying something that I am interested in a scrap house, is to see what else they are selling from that motorcycle, that is, if they sell damaged or damaged engine parts, they usually put it on the same page and sometimes they put the km. Then I realize that that box belongs to that broken engine.

The scrap houses, unless the engine is in very good condition, are interested in selling, piece by piece, if the engine is whole and running, then they sell it whole.

You are right that the Explorer's gearbox is improved.

My Trophy bought it second-hand and it had 4,170 km and I could never put on the first gear when I was going to stop at traffic lights and was going at 50 or 60 km / h.

Since I put the one in the Explorer I can do it without problem.

Now I will enter a website that I buy a lot of material to see if they have gearboxes.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on December 05, 2019, 04:43:17 PM
On the website where I buy, at this time, there is no gearbox. There are only two whole engines.

If I have seen the one I put in the following link and you have it in the United Kingdom.

https://www.ebay.es/itm/Triumph-TIGER-1200-EXPLORER-2013-Gear-Box/362832944310?hash=item547a875cb6:g:cgwAAOSwUeVd4lrY (https://www.ebay.es/itm/Triumph-TIGER-1200-EXPLORER-2013-Gear-Box/362832944310?hash=item547a875cb6:g:cgwAAOSwUeVd4lrY)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Jonesin on January 20, 2020, 09:12:24 PM
*Originally Posted by earthman [+]
Sorry but it could be an important factor here,...does this problem only occur on bikes that have been hammered shall we say.

Here is a 720p video of mine jumping out of 2nd gear. I am by no means riding hard. It popped out of gear 5 times going around my block. You can read the RPM for yourselves.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xzxGxk5smk54yCiR7

2:40
3:58
4:10
5:23
5:32
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on January 20, 2020, 09:49:28 PM
First off, I am saddened to hear that you are experiencing the same thing and it does not appear you are hammering (shall we say) the bike.  All kidding aside, out of my 25k miles, 24k of them have been fairly easy riding with some spirited riding.


Exactly what mine does, it is just more pronounced under slightly harder acceleration.  As of the time I garaged mine for the winter it would not jump out of gear under that light of acceleration but I'm sure that's what I have to look forward to if I were to continue riding it that way.

I have ordered the clutch retaining tool and the bevel box pivot removal tool as well as gaskets to remove the clutch and transmission.  I want to have them on hand for when I remove the shift assembly in case I have to take the whole thing apart to inspect the dogs, forks and retaining clips.

I spoke with my dealer and they were willing to open a case with Triumph for a goodwill repair but they thought the chances were slim and they would be forced to disassemble to document.  Essentially I had to buy into them doing the repair at $2k if Triumph said no.  Bike has 25k on it, I am confident they will say no.

I have a February project.  Worst case if I have to replace a few parts is maybe $600 including the tools/gaskets.  Let's keep our fingers crossed.

What truly dumbfounds me is this started right after I changed the oil, literally the next ride and I just did a Colorado trip in July where it was flawless through the mountains, not a skip.  I'm still thinking about changing the oil again first but at this point I'll inspect the shifting mechanism first, what the heck, that part is easy.

Good luck to you.  I will share my findings.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on February 09, 2020, 07:38:57 PM
OK, so I took it apart and it appears one fork on the output shaft is slightly bent.  I'm not sure on the dog if it is at it's service life and if I'm going to take it out I'm just going to replace it.  So it looks like selector shaft and associated components, dog and two forks.  Input shaft looks great.  Gears look fantastic, no wear or damage

My one fork is just slightly bent as in just barely.  Bummer to drop $500 on parts but hey, the labor was free   :001:    I wonder how long to get parts.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Jonesin on February 09, 2020, 07:43:01 PM
Take a close look specifically at gears #2 and 6. They are the ones that get most affected by this from what I've read.

I don't mean the teeth, I mean the middle where they fit on the selector.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on February 09, 2020, 08:26:16 PM
I see what you mean.  I have attached a picture and it appears that the engagement pins that tie 2 and 6 together in 2nd gear are worn on the edges.  I think 6 for sure needs a replacement and if I'm doing it then it makes sense to do 2 as well.  I have attached a picture that I have cropped.

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/Trophy-Trans-Gears.jpg)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Jonesin on February 09, 2020, 08:29:53 PM
Let me see if I can find the full list of parts for everything that can be wrong with this issue.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Jonesin on February 09, 2020, 08:33:01 PM
Gear change shaft assembly T1194444
Pivot plate.                          T1191200
Detent spring.                      T1195432
Detent arm.                          T1192122
Circlip.                                  T3502535
Cover gasket.                  T1181296


From page 7 of this thread.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on February 09, 2020, 08:42:18 PM
Thank you.  Yes, those parts of potentially part of the issue if it revolves around the shifter mechanism.  My detent wheel is in great condition and I really don't think it is the shift dog or forks now that I see that 6th gear.  I would hate to not spend the time/money to fix that as you can easily see the wear on the engagement dowels (i don't know the correct term) where 6 and 2 come together; the dowels are now rounded.

I hate to spend an extra few hundred bucks but I really don't want to take this apart again because I went the cheap way.  That said, it doesn't look like there is anything catastrophically going on.  I could just change 6 and 2 and the one fork....  The selector is easy to change later.

I'm stewing on it.  I'll see what restocking policy is and maybe order the batch while I stew.  I'm right at $1000 if I do it all.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on February 24, 2020, 02:52:15 PM
Good morning all.  Had a weekend of reassembly - started on Friday.  I had to delay my rebuild when I broke the detent arm assembly and had to order a couple more parts.  First off, here is what I replaced and I can provide a complete parts list if anyone is interested.

All the springs and clips on the gear change shaft
Gear change detent arm and detent wheel
2nd gear
6th gear
shift fork
Associated consumables and gaskets

Got it back together on Saturday and other than getting the oil pump drive sprocket and transmission shaft done right really no issues with reassembly.

This this is stiff.  I so don't remember what it shifted like when new but it appears that the gears and shift fork took up all the wear slack accumulated in 25k miles.  No slipping out of 2nd gear at all and a little hard to get 1-2-3; 4-5-6 are butter smooth.  N is a little hard to hit.

I really think in reassembly I have something up with the clutch like it isn't disengaging fully so N can be hard to find when at a complete stop and twice now the clutch wouldn't disengage when in 1st at a stop.  I have bled it and I'll fool with it some more but transmission wise everything is fantastic.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on February 24, 2020, 10:57:29 PM
I guess you would have mounted the friction plates, anti-vibration springs and anti-vibration seat washer well, remember that the friction plates are not the same. The innermost and outermost friction plate are different.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on February 24, 2020, 11:00:15 PM
(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/IMG_20200224_234858.jpg)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on February 27, 2020, 04:18:42 PM
Digital - thanks for the reply.  I actually used the clutch basket retention tool, the plates were not separated.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on February 27, 2020, 04:36:01 PM
*Originally Posted by Dan66 [+]
Digital - thanks for the reply.  I actually used the clutch basket retention tool, the plates were not separated.

You are welcome.

How's the clutch going now? could you fix it?
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on February 28, 2020, 03:47:21 PM
I have been out of town all week; will be digging into it tonight/tomorrow; worst case I am sure is a new/rebuild of the slave.  I don't think my issue is with the clutch itself but actuation.

Keep you all posted and appreciate the help/guidance.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Coconut on February 28, 2020, 04:27:34 PM
There have been a few Forum Members that have had the Clutch Slave Cylinder Seal fail.

Not a major job to fix it wth a new seal, but if the Clutch fluid has leaked out
it is likely to contaminate the engine oil, so be prepared for the additional costof new Oil & Filter.

Clutch Slave Cylinder repair kits available here for £27.95 including UK Postage,
not sure if they will Ship to the US :

Triumph Trophy 1215 / 1215 SE - Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement Seal Kit (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Trophy-1215-1215-SE-Clutch-Slave-Cylinder-Replacement-Seal-Kit/301735068790)   :028:

Cheers  :821:

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/Forum-Main-Avatar.gif)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on February 28, 2020, 05:12:05 PM
I remember that when we purge the clutch pump circuit, we must place the clutch lever wheel in one position and when the circuit purge is finished, return it to the correct position. It seems like a simple operation that we don't remember because it is simple. But…
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: earthman on February 28, 2020, 07:56:50 PM
*Originally Posted by digital [+]
I remember that when we purge the clutch pump circuit, we must place the clutch lever wheel in one position and when the circuit purge is finished, return it to the correct position. It seems like a simple operation that we don't remember because it is simple. But…

You are talking about the wheel that the rider can adjust to suit the size of their hand span basically? That's a good point to remember, to spin it back to position/setting number one but I can't figure out why you couldn't successfully bleed the system when it's on any of those numbers. :187:

Surely the plunger on the handlebar would move the same amount no matter what number the wheel/lever is set to? The adjustment happens due to the depth of each hole within that thumb wheel does it not?? 
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on February 28, 2020, 09:24:36 PM
Correct, I mean that wheel.

I don't know exactly why, I read it in some section of the workshop manual.

The adjustment happens due to the depth of each hole within that thumb wheel does it not??    So is.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on February 29, 2020, 12:20:13 AM
Thanks,  I am guessing air in the system, I'm not losing fluid so I think the seal is ok.  Will inspect it tomorrow just to be sure but I'm setting up to do a reverse bleed with a syringe and tubing
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on February 29, 2020, 08:52:19 AM
Check well that everything is in place. Especially the springs that will fit well into your housing, also that the spring screws have given you the torque that Triumph marks.

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/100061480-1-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on March 02, 2020, 04:02:17 PM
I did a back bleed of the system (pushed from the slave to the master cylinders) and that seems to have solved the issue.  Clutch feels good and fully disengages.  While I was playing around I pulled the clutch cover off to ensure the clutch lifter plate was aligned and torqued properly.

Now that I have good disengagement, shifting is super smooth; 1-N-2 shifting is much improved and no popping our of gear.  I will want to watch missed shifts 1-2 as I think that started the issue but I truly think it was the springs on gear change mechanism that made the problem easy to happen.  My opinion on this is based on the stiffness of replacement springs versus the used ones that were on the bike.

I think all you may need are the three new springs and circlips.  Just my 2 cents and I am glad I replaced the gears and shift fork too, allowed me to verify no other damage to the transmission.

All in, including fooling with the clutch is about 9 hours of labor and < $400 in parts/supplies.  My time was more than the shop as I was very diligent in following the manual.

Thanks for all the help in this thread, really was helpful.  If anyone has any questions on my specific repairs please don't hesitate to post here or PM me.

Anyway, back to riding.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on March 02, 2020, 04:17:04 PM
I am very glad that in the end everything has been resolved.

It would be good to place exactly what you changed and with the references and Coconut add it to the common breakdowns.

Thanks to you for sharing it.
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: LarryJa on March 02, 2020, 07:42:54 PM
Oh, please put that list together.
Within the next year, I will have to do mine. It's rare/occasional now, but it will get worse.

As a previous Yamaha Venture owner, I want to be prepared(parts, tools & psychologically).
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on March 02, 2020, 09:50:49 PM
OK, here is what all I put in.  Prices are list, available on various websites

Qty   Description                   Part No   Unit Price   Area
1   Nut, Clutch, 22mm            T1170106   $9.13    Clutch
1   Washer, C, Clutch            T1179999   $7.93    Clutch
1   Gasket, Front Bevel Box   T1181296   $8.65    Gasket
1   Gasket, Gearchange Cover    T1261426   $6.28    Gasket
1   Gasket, Clutch Cover           T1261430   $9.44    Gasket
1   Spring, Gearchange Return   T1191207   $3.73    Gear Change Mech
1   Detent Wheel                    T1191235   $13.16    Gear Change Mech
1   Detent Arm, Assembly    T1192122   $15.44    Gear Change Mech
1   Spring, Detent, Torsion    T1192123   $2.24    Gear Change Mech
1   Spring, Coil, Pivot Plate   T1192521   $8.65    Gear Change Mech
3   Circlip, Din 471, Dia. 14.0    T3502535   $1.44    Gear Change Mech
1   Restraint, Clutch, V Series   T3880604   $31.93    Tool
1   Gear, 2nd, Output           T1180147   $95.57    Transmission
1   Gear, 6th, Output           T1180191   $100.59    Transmission
1   Fork, Selector, Output    T1195675   $84.30    Transmission
1   Circlip, EXT, 23.5 x 1.2   T3500201   $4.01    Transmission
3   Circlip, 32mm Shaft           T3500270   $5.53    Transmission
3   E-Clip, 13-18                    T3501111   $0.79    Transmission

Attached file is nicely formatted, sorry, didn't want to spend the time here.

Additionally, to back-bleed the clutch hydraulics I purchased a 150ml catheter tip syringe.  Make sure you wash them out as they have some silicon lube to make sliding the plunger easier.

Shout if any questions
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on March 02, 2020, 10:31:01 PM
Dan66, this has been a detail on your part, I'm sure it will help many who have the same problem.

As we would say in Spain: "¡Ha sido todo un gran puntazo!"

Thank you
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Coconut on March 03, 2020, 08:42:04 AM
I have now added this problem to the :

HOW TO: Check the most common faults & issues, Page 2 ( E - O ) (https://www.triumph-trophy.com/index.php/topic,1648.0.html) Topic.

It can be found under the alphabetically ordered Heading of GEARBOX / Slipping out of gear,
with acknowledgements to several Members for the information they have provided.

(https://cdn.img.triumph-trophy.com/Forum-Main-Avatar.gif)
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: digital on March 03, 2020, 01:45:09 PM
It is a pleasure to find everything also tidy.

Thanks Coconut
Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: LarryJa on April 11, 2020, 01:27:08 PM
I know that I will eventually have to pull the trans, replacing gears, forks, etc., but, for now, I'm able to go "easy" on 2nd & reliably get through it. I just take 1st pretty high, shift to 2nd, go up a bit in revs, & "short shift" into 3rd...
An interesting aspect of my failing 2nd is that it is most difficult when the engine is cold. I think the oil is thick, inhibiting full engagement into 2nd. That's when it'll most easily pop out of 2nd, back into neutral. Sometimes, the shift linkage will even hang up & not quickly return to the neutral position. Then, I'll have to "dab" it back down to get it so that I can reengage 2nd, as I'm accelerating.
Once the bike is fully warmed up. It shifts just fine &, if I'm easy on 2nd, its ok.
Anyone else have this more pronounced when the engine is still cold?
Like I've stated, I know that eventually I'll have to pull & repair, but this does seem that I can go a bit..

Title: Re: Slipping out of 2nd gear?
Post by: Dan66 on April 11, 2020, 03:37:24 PM
My experience didn't show a noticeable difference between cold and hot.  Once the gear engagement cogs (dowels) are rounded off I doubt the viscosity difference in the oil between cold and hot would make a significant difference in slipping.  If the issue is more of a detent wheel/retiner issue I would expect the same, oil viscosity having little effect. 

Could it possibly be that you are more easily shifting when cold and maybe not getting full engagement - just a thought.  Once the torsion springs starts to slacken it doesn't take much at all to pop back into N from 2nd.